Original strapping screws & Centurions

[Nagedzi[TK]]

Why is it that Centurions need to have appropriate rivets etc, but don't require the screw heads used in the original strapping system? It seems strange because these screws--particularly those on the return edge of the chest--are, in my opinion, as noticeable as the cap and split rivets elsewhere on the armour. I get that many people don't want to actually use the original strapping system, but wouldn't it make sense to require that appropriate size screws be installed on the return edges of the torso (regardless of the actual strapping system employed)? After all, wasn't the Centurion level created to strive to achieve the "look" of the movies? Personally, I think the screws definitely add to the armour and--unlike gaffer's tape or other anomalies--appeared on all ANH stunt kits. Without them, it's like putting an ANH bucket together without visible screw heads...it doesn't look quite right. Some people might argue that they're striving for an idealized look. If that's the case, then why are the visible rivets and snaps required for certification?

 

Anyways, I just thought I'd put this "random thought" out there...although I'm sure it's likely been asked and addressed before....

[troopermaster]

I agree with you. If you are going for screen accuracy then the screws should be compulsory for Centurion. By only adding the side rivets and snaps you are only doing half a job at replicating the original strapping so screws should be used whether you have the brackets inside or not. Personally I think you should have the original strapping inside because it really works. It makes your armour hang on your body as it is supposed to and feels great too.

 

Just my thoughts on the subject

[Locitus[Admin]]

Because we haven't gotten that far as to require it yet. Our membership is a conservative bunch and things move slow.

 

If you want to add screws to your return, feel free to do so. It won't make you ineligible for centurion. I have them on mine, even if they are purely decoration in my case.

[Nagedzi[TK]]

I'm glad at least a couple people agree, Paul and Mathias! I use the original strapping system with mine and think that the screws give it a certain Tantive IV ruggedness. Maybe next time the CRL is revisited, it can be suggested as an addition?

[Locitus[Admin]]

It's unlikely since that enforces too much control over what goes on on the inside of the armour, which was never the goal. But rest assured that it will never hinder you if you make it even more accurate.

[Nagedzi[TK]]

But couldn't it be said that the crotch and side rivets do the same thing? I mean they are part of the original strapping system and are required. Truth be told, we see the chest screws in the film a LOT more than we see the crotch rivet....

[Locitus[Admin]]

It could certainly be said so. But you don't have to use those for functional strapping like the originals. Same thing could of course also be argued about the screws. Those however do affect the armour durability in a greater regard than the side and crotch rivets.

 

Anyway, on a personal level I wouldn't mind requiring the screws. I'm just saying that a lot of people do mind, so don't hold your breath. And like I said, there's nothing wrong with building to a level above what is required.

[Nagedzi[TK]]

I hear ya Mathias!

[Clamps[TK]]

I think I have just been motivated to adding some screws to mine. Research for right screws is underway! 

[Darth Aloha[Admin]]

It's true that the CRLs will likely never dictate what is seen on the inside of the armor. For example my crotch "rivets" have nothing to do with mechanically snapping the elastic down under there. 

 

 

The FISD approach to CRL change is to take it slow. Slow not only due to the largely policitcal process of changing the requirements, but it also becomes confusing to community and new recruits alike. I expect to be pushing another set of CRL changes on the LMO team some time this fall before my term is up. All of those changes will effect EIB and Centurion, but the bracket screws are not on that list.

 

Aloha,

 

-Eric

[Nagedzi[TK]]

For what it's worth Charles, my screws (from Mr. No Stripes) have the same size head as the #4 screws on my helmets--5.5mm diameter. 

[Nagedzi[TK]]

On a related note, did Luke (and maybe Han) employ a different strapping system for the chest to ab? Obviously Luke didn't have a return edge on the bottom of the chest so I assume they had to use some sort of inner harness. Any idea?

[troopermaster]

I believe Luke's chest simply had straps glued inside and they were glued inside the abdomen too.

 

Maybe there could be a higher level of Centurion that calls for ultimate screen accuracy? A level that demands an accurate strapping system, PP or khaki painted helmets with white top coat. Basically anything seen on screen goes kind of thing.

 

Just a thought

[Oztrooper[TK]]

AP Armor has a one piece kidney/butt plate that has to be physically separated leaving no return edge to attach screws....trying to add a return edge would be considerable and possibly destructive work to your armor if the mod went wrong just for the sake of adding screws .  Although I agree with the idea of a screen accurate bracket/strapping system for Centurion Level there are some armor makers such as AP who I previously listed that this would be a challenge for....and they are screen derived.

 

Ultimate screen accuracy is ideal but then does the armor have to ultimately be screen derived for authenticity/accuracy or fan made because of its look and better appearance ? 

 

And don't forget Paul they did have duct tape holding pieces together on some troopers...and calves on the wrong legs and other things you're probably more aware of than me that don't look so great.....

 

I'll look you up for some armor Paul when I'm residing in Australia next...I'll let you know when...

[Locitus[Admin]]

There has been talks about making an award for 100% replica suits that are not tied into 501st, something independent that non-501st members also could achieve. But that has been on ice for a long time now.

 

As for AP and an 100% replica award, that would be "sucks to be you".

[troopermaster]

And don't forget Paul they did have duct tape holding pieces together on some troopers...and calves on the wrong legs and other things you're probably more aware of than me that don't look so great.....

 

To you they may not look great. To me they look awesome. The oddities are what makes an authentic trooper.

 

AP is not the best armour for ANH. Too many of it's ROTJ origins shine through to make a convincing ANH trooper unfortunately. But, if you was to try the brackets, there is no reason why you could not mount the brackets on the face of the armour if there is no return edge. There are no excuses not to use the original strapping on any armour if you want screen accuracy. And if you find an excuse, maybe you have the wrong armour or you do not really want to go the next level of accuracy.

 

It would be cool to have a new status to achieve, even if it is outside of the 501st. Somewhere mismatched parts or gaffa tape is encouraged. I know it probably is not going to happen but I believe an authentic looking, screen accurate replica should not be perfect looking and go against what most people want. That is fine. Not everyone will want to achieve such a level but I bet there are a few out there that will.

[Nagedzi[TK]]

It would seem to me that the majority of people that put the effort into becoming a Centurion wouldn't be opposed to putting a "handful" of nuts and bolts into their armour in order to be even more accurate. These screw heads are definitely visible on the outside of the armour and their installation doesn't necessarily have to affect an individual's preferred strapping method. At the very least, the chest return screws heads should be required as they are the most noticeable of the bunch.

 

If we are unable to convince the powers that be that the CRL should be changed, I'd be in favour of an even higher standard or recognition. Maybe the Troopermaster "Award of Excellence," eh Paul? One could try to copy a very specific trooper as seen on camera--similar to MEPD's SWAT--where subtle nuances of weathering, messy trimming of armour and even presence of gaffer's tape are judged?

[iconoclasta_88[501st]]

Maybe there could be a higher level of Centurion that calls for ultimate screen accuracy? A level that demands an accurate strapping system, PP or khaki painted helmets with white top coat. Basically anything seen on screen goes kind of thing.

 

Just a thought

 

 

Man! That would be great.

I would definitely go for that.

 

I want my armor to look ANH all the way. Gaffer included. Also, weathering and the black marks left by handling blasters.

 

I do think that it is illogical to ask for side and crotch rivets and not for the return edge ones. 

What make ones more special or accurate than the others.

 

I realize not all armors will stand the pressure or original strapping, even Paul don´t recommend some kinds of plastic he works with for it. But I have a TE2 armor with the screws just for the looks and it does add a lot of character and accuracy to the build!

 

I know this might not come any time soon, but, the FISD should set a higher goal soon, and troopers will follow.

 

Lets just get rid of the FX helmet first.

 

Saludos.

Edited September 10, 2013 by iconoclasta_88

[Locitus[Admin]]

Lets try to get rid of the inaccuracies before we start demanding more accuracy. It sounds strange coming from my mouth since I'm usually the one asking for more. But it's hard to justify requiring tiny tiny details yet allow atrocities like FX.

 

I tried pushing centurion into more accuracy, and I got chewed up for it from all around. It was not a nice experience and shows just how ready the general community is for such a change (hint: it isn't).

[rhapsodyred99[TK]]

You will always run into those Idealized vs Prop Replica Types.  It is hard sometimes to balance as sometimes Prop Replica, does not work so well for trooping/general public.

 

I have a SWAT level sandy that I tried very very hard to replicate everything I could to make him seem like he stepped off the set, which works for a sandy because he is supposed to be banged up, dirty and worn out.

 

My TM suit that goes for ANH Stunt, Hero, and ESB, also uses original strapping, because as TM says, it DOES work great for trooping, but that being said It is assembled with care and looks more "finished" than perhaps most of the screen used suits.  Now I am letting it get natural wear and tear from blaster marks scuffs etc, and I do have an RS fishpond lid with some chips, and chipped Latex Handguards I use for Stunt, because I like to look like I have seen some action

 

 

 

yeah? you know how I got this?  That's right.

 

Punching Rebels.

 

In. The. Face.

 

and this?

 

 

This I got from Head buttin a Wookie! 

 

 In. The. Chest. (hey they are too tall to hit em in their nasty hairy mugs!)

 

I ain't no wet behind the ears shiney, I work for a lIvin' boy.  

 

Kickin Rebel Butt is my Biznas.

 

And. Biznas. Is. GOOD!

 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Sly11
Edited to restore images Sly11 2021

[Front-a-Little]

I like the idea of having something beyond Centurion. We have some very ambitious members who have spend a lot of time to research every tiny detail of original stormtrooper armor and I appreciate their work. I have no chipped helmet yet but I've added the screws to my return edges even though they are fake and I use elastic on snaps inside the armor. In my opinion everyone should go for this look, try to be as accurate as possible.

Unfortunately, I'm just one single member of this nice whitearmor community and the legion. And we don't discriminate for not having the body type to fit into TK armor properly so I totally agree with the argument that some armor types don't have accurate return edges. Members have probably chosen that type of armor because of financial limits so in a way, excluding certain armor types from Centurion is discrimination and therefor a no-go.

 

The non-legion award beyond Centurion is probably the best compromisse, I'd vote for that.

 

PS: Yeah, I know I'm no Centurion yet, I'm simply to lazy to make the pics for approval 

[troopermaster]

FX would be an absolute no-no. There are some better kits out there for the same price that are much better looking an FX. To go for an award for ultimate screen accuracy the FX just does not cut it. Simply put, FX is not screen accurate in any way, shape or form so why would you even try to go for an award that strives for screen accuracy? FX is dated. It is a fancy dress costume and cannot be taken seriously.

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

I myself being Centurion agree that there could be a more screen accurate level. I intend to troop for years so really I can't see me changing my armor, reason being I have fellow squad members with the same screen accurate brackets and hook closures, the problem is the brackets are not long term viable, they crack around the bolts, I have just helped a fellow member replace all of his brackets with snaps and elastic. I still believe there is room for a higher level, but would it be a long term trooperable armor?

[Nagedzi[TK]]

I still think you can install the screws and use whatever internal strapping system you fancy. If you did choose to use a modern method, there'd be zero stress placed on the screw holes in the return edges. For those concerned about long term durability, this would be the best of both worlds.

[troopermaster]

the problem is the brackets are not long term viable, they crack around the bolts, I have just helped a fellow member replace all of his brackets with snaps and elastic.

 

Ever seen original armour?

 

You have to accept your armour could crack with the brackets or do not bother going for screen accuracy. There is no compromise if you really want your armour to be like the ones on screen. If you do not wish to go the whole hog then settle for Centurion.