dougefresh Posted December 25, 2007 Report Posted December 25, 2007 Just for the record, I want to state upfront that I'm NOT trying to ressurect the armor war, or incite an argument over lineage... I just have a question... I was fortunate enough to see a GF helmet and an AP helmet in the same room a little while ago, and I'm curious about some of the differences... As I understand it, the faceplate was a bit sanitized for the GF, and then restored to a more asymmetrical look for the AP, but what really has me curious is where the differences between the cap-and-back stem from. The GF has a much more trapezoidal, tapered look, whereas the AP is much rounder. (The dome section of the GF slopes inwards on the sides, so that the width at the crown is significantly less than the width at the base. And the sides of the AP's dome are almost parallel all the way up, with a fuller curve at the crest.) Anyone know why? Did they use two different helmets for the cap-n-back? Just wondering. Quote
dougefresh Posted December 25, 2007 Author Report Posted December 25, 2007 (edited) Here's a pic to illustrate what I'm sayin' -- --------------- Looking dead-on from the front, the difference is even more apparent, but I couldn't find any decent images with nearly identical angles. Edited February 17, 2021 by gmrhodes13 link not working, removed gmrhodes13 2021 Quote
troopermaster Posted December 25, 2007 Report Posted December 25, 2007 I don't know what the story behind the AP helmet is, but it is definately not the same as the GF. Quote
Bigturc Posted December 25, 2007 Report Posted December 25, 2007 WOW!! What a great helmet this is, did you notice the build quality on the one on the right! I'm stunned! I would say that AP made some changes to the GF's mold, and that might explain the difference in the dome! I'll get more info on this one! Quote
Smitty Posted December 25, 2007 Report Posted December 25, 2007 The AP definitely looks more accurate than the GF in that pic. The Mullet on the GF looks horrendous. Quote
troopermaster Posted December 25, 2007 Report Posted December 25, 2007 I agree Smitty. I would say that the AP is a totally new mould. GF originally said that his moulds were untouched, then later confessed to 'fettling' them. I guess he messed up the back and cap Quote
giric thren Posted December 25, 2007 Report Posted December 25, 2007 WOW!!What a great helmet this is, did you notice the build quality on the one on the right! I'm stunned! I would say that AP made some changes to the GF's mold, and that might explain the difference in the dome! I'll get more info on this one! yea, i own 2 AP's and they are just amazing.... if you ever want a good helmet to display AP is the one i would choose. Quote
dougefresh Posted December 25, 2007 Author Report Posted December 25, 2007 WOW!!What a great helmet this is, did you notice the build quality on the one on the right! I'm stunned! I would say that AP made some changes to the GF's mold, and that might explain the difference in the dome! I'll get more info on this one! I know-- the helmet in on the right is breath-taking, isn't it? Must be the handywork of a Canadian. Only a Canuck could be capable of such master craftsmanship. I agree, Thomas. I have an AP lid myself... not as nice as BigTurc's (I've been away from the homeland too long ), but I dig it. Paul-- I think you're probably right. Just makes me wonder why though-- to conceal a mistake, personal preference, a hand-sculpt? I always get curious about the stories behind these things. It's fun to imagine what the process was. Personally, I like all the little quirks between the different armors. Maybe some are less accurate than others, but I enjoy seeing and learning about the differences. Quote
Bigturc Posted December 26, 2007 Report Posted December 26, 2007 Don't be so modest, you're the artist, I'm a simple programmer .. 1001 01010 0101010 0 01 I'm waiting for a response from Mark about the GF->AP mold diff! Quote
Daetrin[Admin] Posted December 26, 2007 Report Posted December 26, 2007 I have both the AP & TE2 - will have to post some comparison pix soon. I'm curious as to the true story of how AP got to where it is today. I used to think AP = "TE in ABS", but while similar they're actually pretty different in many areas. Kiyote - we'll have to shoot comparisons of our kit as well. Quote
troopermaster Posted December 26, 2007 Report Posted December 26, 2007 Do you think you could take some measurements of the domes on your helmets Paul? The circumference of the dome and over the top, ear cap to ear cap should help and can be matched against the GF. Quote
Bigturc Posted December 26, 2007 Report Posted December 26, 2007 Here's more info for the comparison info: "The AP is a completely new helmet, the GF helmet was heavily modified and sanitized to match Hero look but was not accurate in many areas. the AP helmet is slightly sanitized just smoothed the top/cap to remove bumps, but all the original assymetries are present. The armor is from same molds but AP improved many many details that GF didn't, chest lip, AB button detail plates, forearm details AB details, butt plate detail ect..." Quote
troopermaster Posted December 26, 2007 Report Posted December 26, 2007 So did AP get two sets of helmet moulds from GF? Quote
Scott M.[TK] Posted December 26, 2007 Report Posted December 26, 2007 Don't be so modest, you're the artist, I'm a simple programmer .. 1001 01010 0101010 0 01 Well, you all know there are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote
Guest T*E Posted December 27, 2007 Report Posted December 27, 2007 Well, you all know there are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't. GF 'claims' he sent molds to AP that were unmodified, but the funny thing is this: GF said the stuff he copied I sent him was only used once and then it could not be used again. Same story from AP. So, it looks more and more like they cast from a TE helmet later on. Makes no nevermind to me. The helmet is still off and quite honestly really changed from what one should look like. Oh well... to each their own. T*E Quote
troopermaster Posted December 27, 2007 Report Posted December 27, 2007 That's what I was thinking too. I'd still like to know the helmet dimensions, just so I can at least compare them to mine. Quote
dougefresh Posted December 27, 2007 Author Report Posted December 27, 2007 That's what I was thinking too. I'd still like to know the helmet dimensions, just so I can at least compare them to mine. Paul: Ask, and ye shall receive... Please note that these are rough measurements... "Base", is the rough circumference of the cap, just above the brow trim. "Crest" is the circumference at the highest part of the cap, before it starts sloping inward to the dome. AP: Base: 29" Crest: 27" Ear to ear: 14 1/8" GF: Base: 28" Crest: 24 1/2" Ear to ear: 14" Quite a difference at the crest, as you can see. The GF, as I heard someone put it, is fairly "pin-headed". The "hero" theory has some legs, I think. It's just a guess, but I'm thinkin' GF was trying to get the squat, lowered-brow, hero look down, and simply overdid it. Quote
dougefresh Posted December 27, 2007 Author Report Posted December 27, 2007 Alain-- oh, pshaw. I just make stuff look pretty, and animate it-- you actually make stuff WORK. I'm eternally in awe of you programmer/developer guys. My brain just isn't wired for that kind of linear, pragmatic style of thinking. It completely mystifies me how you guys are so good at it. Also, much thanks for checking with Mark about the moulds. I love learning stuff like that. Nice of you to ask, and share! Scott--- good one! A joke within a joke-- even if you don't think it's funny, you have to know WHY it *should* be funny. I like it! Quote
troopermaster Posted December 27, 2007 Report Posted December 27, 2007 AP:Base: 29" Crest: 27" Ear to ear: 14 1/8" GF: Base: 28" Crest: 24 1/2" Ear to ear: 14" Thanks Doug I just checked mine against those numbers but didn't bother with the crest measurements as I would be guessing where to start measuring TM: Base: 29.5" (measured just above brow trim) Ear to ear: 14 1/4" Quote
SethB6025[501st] Posted December 27, 2007 Report Posted December 27, 2007 I've noticed the dome to be inconsistent from TE to AP, but the AP face is quite similar to TE. I'd have to agree with Matt on the reason for that. Its possible the GF cap/back was re-used by AP and partially re-sculpted, or that he also cast a TE and fiddled with it to reduce the similarity. I understood the official story to be that the AP was from an unmodified mold that GF had but that doesn't jive with GF's statements in the past about having only one mold. Quote
giric thren Posted December 28, 2007 Report Posted December 28, 2007 all i know is that my AP is beautiful!!! Quote
Ketariniii Posted December 28, 2007 Report Posted December 28, 2007 god you people have an eye for detail like no other. I have to sit and stare jus to see what you guys notice right off the bat. Quote
Star Wars Helmets Posted December 28, 2007 Report Posted December 28, 2007 I always thought (maybe wrongly) that GF sold his moulds to AP, who then made a few changes. Whatever the history to these then I'd like to know so my site can relect this. IIRC (and again maybe wrong) but werent the AP helmets shipped from the same physical address? Cheers Jez Quote
troopermaster Posted December 28, 2007 Report Posted December 28, 2007 IIRC (and again maybe wrong) but werent the AP helmets shipped from the same physical address? Same address as what Jez....the armour? I am not sure what you meant by that comment Quote
TI-3844 Posted December 28, 2007 Report Posted December 28, 2007 I always thought (maybe wrongly) that GF sold his moulds to AP, who then made a few changes. Whatever the history to these then I'd like to know so my site can relect this. That's what both GF and AP told me. So, the dome itself is off, to say the least... what about the faceplate? Quote
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