Probably a rehash post: screen accuracy?

[Marvinrobot]

Ok so I'm sure this has been debated numerous times but I love to see the arguments. So should saying "screen accurate" mean inaccurate? I'm sure this has been said before...If we were all door guards on Bespin then we'd all wear our biceps backwards.

 

Your thoughts?

[Smitty]

Well I my goal is to strive to be what Lucas had intended rather than screen accurate. For example a near screen accurate helmet that has been dressed up a bit with just a pinch more symmetricalness (is that even a word) is ideal for me. I wanna look good at all angles and I would never wear a bicep backwards...unless alcohol was involved then all bets are off.

[TK-2126_MD[TK]]

Like u said this could be a can of wormms u opened up..... I forget ( but Think it was either Paul or Seth) that the first thing is to determine what was ment to be see on screen.... ( ahn troopers have angular hand plates ( lame example...) and what was a last minutes fix/forgetfullness/cant find it that got printed in the film ( troopers with tape holding the armor, trooper with no strips, trooper in carbonfreezer chamber with sholder armor falling off, not all ahn troopers had hengstler counters on film but all had them before "ACCION" and few had them after "CUT" and thats the razon why u dont see them every again........ and stuff like that.

 

In regards to your post i have to go see the movie again, and see for my self if they were all on backwards..... nice find ( well at least for me)

Thx

[GINO]

I say as long as it appeared on screen in a certain way, then of course that particular example is considered screen accurate.

For me personally, I don't like to go with the 'exceptions' but rather what I see occur in most examples.

 

My philosophy is if you want it to look just like it did in the movie, you cannot cut any corners when replicating it. Sometimes that means it won't look beautiful to the non prop hobbiest when view at close up inspection. But neither did some of the film props.

 

It all depends on your goals for you props.

[Scott M.[TK]]

The intent is not to find the anomaly and use that as reference. The intent is not to look for ways to make your armor look odd in a group of 20 and say "I was the trooper that stunned Leia, so I don't NEED tube stripes". The intent is not to spend days and days sorting though the film looking for the troopers with green lenses and three teeth.

 

The intent IS to be able to have a set of armor that looks like 90% of every trooper seen in the film. The whole idea (as I conclude after Uncle George did the last three films), that the TK's were intended to be identical. That was what we saw when we watched the films the first time. Regardless if you saw it on screen as a seven year old, or on DVD as a 20 year old, the first time you saw this film, you did not see all the differences (if you did, please see your psychiatrist )

 

All joking aside, the TK were meant to be a faceless set of enforcers, that wore identical uniforms and scared the heck out of the locals.

 

I think that is what we are striving for. Obviously some things must change (like the pauldrons on the TD's or the grappling hook on the TK in the hanger), but overall, we should look very similar on the outside.

 

That being said, the next requirement for Elite status will be to weigh 165 lbs and be 5" 10". :lol:

 

That is REALLY a joke.

 

Move along,

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Like u said this could be a can of wormms u opened up..... I forget ( but Think it was either Paul or Seth) that the first thing is to determine what was ment to be see on screen.... ( ahn troopers have angular hand plates ( lame example...) and what was a last minutes fix/forgetfullness/cant find it that got printed in the film ( troopers with tape holding the armor, trooper with no strips, trooper in carbonfreezer chamber with sholder armor falling off, not all ahn troopers had hengstler counters on film but all had them before "ACCION" and few had them after "CUT" and thats the razon why u dont see them every again........ and stuff like that.

 

In regards to your post i have to go see the movie again, and see for my self if they were all on backwards..... nice find ( well at least for me)

Thx

Exactly that. We need to remember this is a film after all, and they weren't trying for 100% consistency.

 

This is also why both symmetrical and asymmetrical armor are equally, 100%, OK for our hobby. One is trying to replicate the icon, the impression of the costume. The other is trying to replicate props. Similar, but two very different goals.

 

Fortunately our hobby welcomes both types!

[GINO]

One is trying to replicate the icon, the impression of the costume. The other is trying to replicate props. Similar, but two very different goals.

 

 

I think this is a very important concept that everyone should take note of.

Too very seperate goals here, and I think people should realize this when criticizing.

 

I think people would get better focused feedback if they were clear on which they were trying to achieve.

 

People fall somewhere in this sliding scale. Sometimes, it varies for people depending on the piece.

 

ACCURISTS<--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->IDEALISTS

 

ACCURISTS:

film prop accuracy - no compromises - identical to the film prop in terms of materials, construction, detailing, level of craftsmanship

 

IDEALISTS:

symmetrical - sometimes made to look cosmetically nicer/cleaner - interested in the 'ideal' of what the prop should look like in their mind's eye - always desires a high level of of craftsmanship even if that differs than the film prop

 

For me personally, anything shy of far left accurists is all lumped into one category.

I believe that over time, people tend to gravitate towards the left side of the scale.

I've been doing this since 1992, and I started out at the extreme far right, but eventually made my way to the extreme far left. Never looked back since.

[Peregrinus]

I've been at the extreme far right of that scale since somewhere in the late '80s-early'90s. Of course, what is my ideal or impression of the Stormtrooper as icon... probably won't be everybody's ideal. My philosophy has always been "more accurate than the film version", no matter the genre. Basically, making the "real" item the prop was a quick-and-dirty representation of.

 

Of course, my Stormtrooper armour won't be made of plastoid composite, but you know what I mean.

 

--Jonah

[GINO]

It is impossible to be more accurate than the screen version.

Screen accurate is in reference to the filming prop seen on screen. The film prop sets the standard for what is considered accurate.

 

If one wanted to make a more refined, idealized version of that prop, that doesn't make it more accurate if that's not how the film prop was.

[TK8280]

If one wanted to make a more refined, idealized version of that prop, that doesn't make it more accurate if that's not how the film prop was.

Yeah, it just makes it their own interpretation of what they think it should have looked like, and not what it really was...GL's interpretations of his vision are all on screen, and as Scott said it was the intent and the presentation of the first time you watched the film, this is what GL wanted to get a crossed to the public, not all the low budget film quarks that we all have seen from watching the movie thousands of times, but if you want to make your armor your own interpretation of the film go ahead to each their own I always say that’s just my .02 credits

[Scott M.[TK]]

It is impossible to be more accurate than the screen version.

Screen accurate is in reference to the filming prop seen on screen. The film prop sets the standard for what is considered accurate.

 

If one wanted to make a more refined, idealized version of that prop, that doesn't make it more accurate if that's not how the film prop was.

 

 

Very true. I think the original question was if you went to extremes with obvious anomalies. The bicep issue in ESB was not intended, but it did happen. Just as the missing tube stripes on Tantive IV. While we can argue that a helmet without stripes is truly screen accurate (because we can all see it on screen), it is not what was intended, and therefore, should not be part of the "screen accurate discussion regarding 501st TK armor, and Elite Status to go the next step.

 

If you want to make a bucket with no stripes and call it 100% screen accurate, you can. Will I consider it for Elite Status? NO.

[GINO]

Very true. I think the original question was if you went to extremes with obvious anomalies. The bicep issue in ESB was not intended, but it did happen. Just as the missing tube stripes on Tantive IV. While we can argue that a helmet without stripes is truly screen accurate (because we can all see it on screen), it is not what was intended, and therefore, should not be part of the "screen accurate discussion regarding 501st TK armor, and Elite Status to go the next step.

 

If you want to make a bucket with no stripes and call it 100% screen accurate, you can. Will I consider it for Elite Status? NO.

 

 

What is Elite status? Some 501st thing?

[firebladejedi[TK]]

What is Elite status? Some 501st thing?

 

 

Yes, and this board in particular

[GINO]

Serioulsy though, I've never heard of that.

[ItsThatGuy[501st]]

Serioulsy though, I've never heard of that.

 

Check out this section here: http://whitearmor.net/forum/index.php?showforum=18

 

Elite status is a detachment "award" for meeting certain requirments on your armor. That's the best way I know how to describe it...

[GINO]

Thanks for the link.

I read through some of those requirements. <_<

Ed, I've got a lot of comments about some of that stuff, but I'll save it for another time/place/thread.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

It's worth pointing out that a main goal of the Elite standards is to up the quality level and incentivize the quality level of stormtrooper costuming in the 501st. It it not intended to be a guide for screen accuracy.

[Marvinrobot]

Now that was a great discussion. Spot on in my opinion the issue of representing an Icon because that's what people see. They don't see my giant FX bucket as being slightly big (which it is) they just enjoy suspending reality for that brief second to relive a childhood memory. That's why people want photos with us even when we have our helmets off they still don't see us they see a Trooper! I definitely did not see all the inconsistencies (and I've watched the films a million times like you all have) until I was actually building the armor and was trying to land somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. Personally I did not want people saying he looks like a Trooper, I wanted them to say he is a Trooper. My favorite question thus far from a 10 year old boy..."Is that real?" My answer was simply "Go ahead knock on it", his eyes lit up when he banged on my forearm and he ran off to tell his mom he met a real Stormtrooper...that's officially the moment I was hooked.

[GINO]

It's worth pointing out that a main goal of the Elite standards is to up the quality level and incentivize the quality level of stormtrooper costuming in the 501st. It it not intended to be a guide for screen accuracy.

 

 

Paul, I think that is a great idea.

My only thoughts were that some of the requirements weren't correct and sometimes contadictary.

For example, ESB elite status requires decals for the helmet. However, ANH elite status doesn't say that the helmet should not have any decals. Stuff like that.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Yup, there are lots of little things that were left off. A big reason for this is that we didn't want to make it that huge of an initial jump, and wanted to at least have an easy to achieve base. For instance today you can be 501st acceptable with an unmodified FX kit, meaning plastic belt, black ab plate buttons, but with an ANH helmet and wearing a holster on either side. Or having an ESB helmet on an otherwise ANH suit. Just getting folks to have a costume that is movie-consistent would be a big step in quality.

 

As the Legion on the whole moves towards these details we can revisit these standards again. Just like MEPD upped their standards last year once the majority of standtroopers had achieved the original set.

 

That out of the way - we're always open to ideas on what to incorporate in - so feel free to suggest away! Some we might adopt sooner, others may be deferred, but it's still good to have a list.

[TK-4510[501st]]

I dont have any armor at the moment, but when I do go about making the next set it will be a "clean" screen accurate set. What I mean is.... If you look at the Gino v2 helmet, its clean but closely resembles the Dave M helmet. Thats what I am going for. I wouldnt mind a nasty f'd up set too just for kicks, but in generel I like the clean accurate look.

 

Now sandies.. Thats a different!

 

I am wondering too.... Gino, how do I go about painting the tube stripes? Can you kindly PM me about this... I may want to do it for the tutorial:)

[dougefresh]

Don't get me wrong, Paul-- I love a Doc Brown reference as much as the next guy, but ya' might wanna post it in the right thread.

 

The banana-fueled car is in the thread about the rubber gloves, buddy.

 

It's not a new idea. A working prototype was created some time ago:

 

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Sorry guys - my boss was coming 'round behind me and I had a few windows open. Whoops!

[TK-9805]

You know, I think this is one of the best threads I have read on this site. I loved Wally's quote:

"Now that was a great discussion. Spot on in my opinion the issue of representing an Icon because that's what people see. They don't see my giant FX bucket as being slightly big (which it is) they just enjoy suspending reality for that brief second to relive a childhood memory."

 

This is EXACTLY what the 501st is about!

 

I still aim to apply for Elite status eventually, but it's for MY staisfaction, NO ONE ELSE! I am a huge fan of as-accurate-as-possible armor, but when it comes right down to it, it's the joy of lighting up a kid's face that makes every penny worth it.

 

Besides, did you ever really look at the screen-uesd armor? I don;t think any two suits are alike!

 

 

Yup, there are lots of little things that were left off. A big reason for this is that we didn't want to make it that huge of an initial jump, and wanted to at least have an easy to achieve base. For instance today you can be 501st acceptable with an unmodified FX kit, meaning plastic belt, black ab plate buttons, but with an ANH helmet and wearing a holster on either side. Or having an ESB helmet on an otherwise ANH suit. Just getting folks to have a costume that is movie-consistent would be a big step in quality.

 

As the Legion on the whole moves towards these details we can revisit these standards again. Just like MEPD upped their standards last year once the majority of standtroopers had achieved the original set.

 

That out of the way - we're always open to ideas on what to incorporate in - so feel free to suggest away! Some we might adopt sooner, others may be deferred, but it's still good to have a list.

[Scott M.[TK]]

Paul, I think that is a great idea.

My only thoughts were that some of the requirements weren't correct and sometimes contadictary.

For example, ESB elite status requires decals for the helmet. However, ANH elite status doesn't say that the helmet should not have any decals. Stuff like that.

 

I also would greatly appreciate any input. My goal for the next few months is to help "clean up" some of the requirements. I want to create a set of standards that a person with a new set of armor (or an existing set) can take, follow, and achieve Elite Status. Having all the right requirements, so there is no gray (Humbrol or otherwise) area, is the most desirable.

 

Feel free to post or use PM.