The original!

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

he resculpted the bucks. that's his point!

[Dr.Senf]

........................got some more!

enough for all of us!!

[Sonnenschein]

he resculpted the bucks. that's his point!

 

And you see that by looking at a pic of a pile of white formed plastic? Sorry, I don't get.

 

This pic only proves he vac formed them. Where is he seen in the act of resculpting?

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

one of the reasons why the ribbed cap n back was produced is because one of the cap n back moulds broke.

if a mould was destroyed during production, and needed to be re created, that would explain why

the design changed.

 

and if there were helmets made from the previous mould buck that was damaged/destroyed during the forming process

then this would explain the differences in cap n backs on helmets.

 

the hero design is a great example for the changes made by andrew for the transition from hdpe to abs.

 

andrew fully explains in his modern videos the process of creating a heat resistant buck

 

it's something he learned in forming college. he was not just a former... he was a sculptor of a different kind.

 

he does not work in clay and plaster. he works in aluminum dust, steel fillite powder and high heat custom

resin formulations that create a steel and aluminum alloy suspended in resin.

 

he created the hero buck, that's another great example of how he modified the design.

 

andrew didn't run over to elstree for new bucks... he sculpted them himself.

Edited April 12, 2012 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[Sonnenschein]

one of the reasons why the ribbed cap n back was produced is because one of the cap n back moulds broke.

 

 

I have to disappoint you,this myth has been busted a long, long time ago.

 

I know my English is somewhat limited, but the process you are describing is NOT resculpting.

 

It a called modifiying. If you get a (clay) sculpt you may need to cut it up in order to cast/vac form, etc it.

 

Imagine you're a sculptor and make a scale model of a Scale car. Then it get's shipped to the factory where it is broken up into parts in order to make a kit out of it. Some minor changes are made.

 

But those poor guy in the chinese factory IS NOT a re-sculptor. He is a hired WORKER. Nothing more

[troopermaster]

andrew didn't run over to elstree for new bucks... he sculpted them himself.

 

So how do you account for the six (or so) suits made at Elstree before Andrew took over the forming?

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

he's not the originator of the sculpt, he's a sculptor in a different medium and he didn't "cast" it

 

he sculpted it again with changes for making it into a costume.

 

he took a full 3d design with no seams and designed the assembly process and chose where to break the design apart.

[Sonnenschein]

 

 

he created the hero buck, that's another great example of how he modified the design.

 

andrew didn't run over to elstree for new bucks... he sculpted them himself.

Excuse me,Vern,filling 2 holes and a little clean up IS NOT a great example.

 

The differences in the face plate are explained with the different properties of ABS and HDPE

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

good point paul!

 

then why didn't they just pull another 52?

 

what's the real story?

 

didn't AA sculpt the hero faceplate and do the ABS runs in his own shop?

 

or did elstree tell him to move to ABS for the hero suits?

 

did elstree do the 3 hole faceplate sculpt and the bubble eyes sculpt?

 

interesting point karin... but the hero faceplate has a ton of differences between

 

a stunt face with "just a little clean up"

 

that's not how hero's were done... it was a completely different buck.

Edited April 12, 2012 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[Lone wolf[TK]]

I can't believe there are still people supporting AA and his stories, especially guys who have been on here for a long time. Yes he did vacform stuff, maybe he made the ears, maybe not but it is getting ridiculous now the new stories he is telling.

[Sonnenschein]

He did not re-create it. But I may have broken it apart to form it. That what I said above

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

I don't support the lies... I just want the real story sifted... paul and matt can help people to better understand the drama.

I bring this stuff up as a way of exploring the data.

 

it's called a debate... I take one side out of curiosity. not because I agree with it. or even support it.

Edited April 12, 2012 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

I can't believe there are still people supporting AA and his stories, especially guys who have been on here for a long time. Yes he did vacform stuff, maybe he made the ears, maybe not but it is getting ridiculous now the new stories he is telling.

 

if you can post a comparison between the accounts it would be a fun read!

 

you can tell there were probably quite a few different bucks used to make faceplates.

 

doesn't that explain why there are so many variations?

 

AA formed with a group of people in the shop as well didn't he? so there was some work done

by his shop team that he might not even have formed himself?

 

taken off the buck before fully cooling, warping, age and damage to the buck? ect.

 

maybe one faceplate had pills in the tears and no eye bump and one had an eye bump and no pills?

Edited April 12, 2012 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[Lone wolf[TK]]

if you can post a comparison between the accounts it would be a fun read!

 

It is hard to keep up with the changes, the main give away was the tear detail, he had no idea about this until recently as his copy didn't have it as it was taken off that mold. His reasons were amusing.

I have a theory about the Hero lid, yes the stunts were rough, HDPE reacts very badly with an apparently smooth buck, every little dunt is exaggerated. To vacform over existing molds with ABS would make it better.Possibly the initial molds were damaged, a new recasted mold was made from a helmet and the new one was a bit fatter due to a poor recast. I don't know what happened back then but I won't be going to AA to hear his version of events.

Yes maybe you are just playing the antagonist by saying AA won, the full court case really makes it very clear to me that AA is not very trustworthy.

[troopermaster]

good point paul!

 

then why didn't they just pull another 52?

 

Simple. The vac machine at Elstree developed a problem and the forming had to be outsourced. That is when AA stepped into the picture.

 

For Elstree to form a handful of suits, the forming tools had to be made already. This was in the plastering shop and has been confirmed by Brian Muir.

 

I don't doubt AA made several of the parts for the Stormtrooper armour, parts like the ab button detail, shoulder straps, drop boxes, etc...but there is no way he scuplpted or created the original look or forming tools. He never had the forming tools after ANH and told me himself that he used skins that were on the tools for protection. This is a total lie when you see his armour that is ROTJ derived and he had nothing to do with ROTJ so why would he have these ROTJ skins?

 

The simple explanation is he used an AP suit to make his forming tools and one of his funky ribbed trooper hemets that was cleaned up and badly altered to look like an original helmet.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

very interesting read paul!

 

thanks so much... more more!

 

so then we have the LFL archive photos to show a comparison between AA and LFL sculpts as proof of this modern modification

 

of the base buck?

 

so at one point we have MG and LFL doing a photo shoot, and do we see an evolution to the AA sculpt as time progresses?

 

just like most armorers don't they all mod their sculpts at some point over time?

 

it would be interesting to have a shepperton sitting next to a modern AP as a comparison?

Edited April 12, 2012 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[matt black]

I think this topic is now just covering old ground that has been covered many, many times before. MasterBlaster, there are many threads here that you can look up if you wish to learn more about peoples differing opinions on the subject. This thread is locked for now as it is not really contributing anything new to the community.

[matt black]

This topic is now open again.

[Sonnenschein]

This topic is now open again.

 

I think everything was already said and everybody made their point. Die hard AA supporters can't be convinced, and before we are going in circles again, this should stay locked IMHO

 

Anybody new to this topic should read up and build their own opinion.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Sonnenschein

[matt black]

Some people feel that there is still some information to be gained from this thread. As long as the thread stays on a forward momentum and doesn't turn into a bashing thread we are happy for it to stay open.

[Sonnenschein]

That sounds reasonable. I really do hope that there will be new information. I like to learn new things

[matt black]

Me too

[vecspeed12]

Interesting...

[Drftfan[501st]]

I am learning that is for sure. Until reading through I thought aa was rather original. Now I know better

 

[Nicholls]

I have learnt more useful information in this thread in about an hour, than 13 years of school haha.