The original!

[Studio Stasis]

I was present during the all out flame war on the RPF when all that SDS offered was a helmet. There were only rumors of a complete set of trooper armor on the horizon at the time. Even before the armor was offered, the helmet was an enigma and a topic of much debate. The cap and back perfectly matched that of a 2 piece cap and back with the ribbed rear tube which had been filled-in to match the look of screen troopers, while totally lacking the rear swoop. Even the equator line under the rear trap details was oddly straight and sharp in ways that confounded every trooper enthusiast that was willing to question the great makers claims. Many people offered up blurry photo screen shots to illustrate that there might have been some helmets on screen that didn't have the rear swoop, and it was a stretch to say the least. The face plate seemed legit but the underside of the tubes had been heavily trimmed away at the opening, causing the S-trim to be visible at almost any forward angle. That was only the beginning of the era that we now remember as "WTF SDS?". Once Ainsworth sold some armor, it was painfully obvious that he not only recast a set of ROTJ armor that had been reverse engineered to look ANH, but it was also obvious which armor he had in his possession, based on the custom, unique, hand sculpted items that were fabricated by that armorer to complete the suit, as not all of the original parts were present. The primary reason that anyone in the hobby has a bone to pick with Ainsworth is that he constantly lied about the origins of what he was offering, and then poured salt on the wound by lying about what he sculpted for the film originally. So what if the original molds burned in a fire? He should have been up front from the beginning about how he was putting his product together, even if his ugly helmet came from skins from a prototype that he had to heavily alter to even begin to resemble a screen used helmet.

 

The moment that the deal was sealed for me was when I saw the photos of Ainsworth's product next to the original ANH suit and helmet parts in the archives. That proves that he had no armor molds, he had a faceplate (at best) for his helmets, and a prototype cap and back that he had to alter significantly to attempt the look of an original stormtrooper helmet. The photos say it all. I don't buy for an instant that he sculpted the suits or the helmet for the production. I believe he could have come up with a few accessories or details, none of which makes up for his trail of lies and intention to deceive the public every step of the way. He was a hired vacuform service, and decided he would be willing to lie to have a big tasty piece of the star wars franchise pie. He basically lost the entire court case, and yet won by a completely BS default judgement that threatens ALL copyright property in the UK.

 

Someone asked why RS Props isn't chastised for making replicas of what was originally Ainsworth's work on the original film. Ainsworth fabricated the suits, he didn't design them, and he certainly didn't sculpt them (as his video is now undeniable proof of). RS Props, as with any other armor maker that recast a film used suit, paid a hefty price for their original piece and has privately offered to the public a duplicate of a costume that we all loved over the years. I am sure that if it were feasible, they would prefer to offer them on a mass scale, complete with licensing. Since they aren't licensed, they aren't advertising in publications about their wares. Ainsworth blatantly advertised in magazines, on websites, and in publications that he had a right to the product beyond that of a licensee. He was now the "creator", and claimed to still have the original molds. How much of his tale was actually true? As far as any of us have been able to surmise, so little of it is truth that it leaves us to wonder if any shred of it is. I would have purchased his product if he would have been truthful. It's a shame that he has to spin tales and fabricate nonsense for profit.

[ClockworkRonin]

Wow. This thread should be standard reading material for every trooper or soon2be

[longboard8]

All I have to say is, nevermind the bollocks.

 

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[Tolo[TK]]

The simple explanation is he used an AP suit to make his forming tools and one of his funky ribbed trooper hemets that was cleaned up and badly altered to look like an original helmet.

Ok, I got here a little late. But, is it a known fact that he used an AP armor or is it just a TE2 derived armor?

 

 

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[TK-2126_MD[TK]]

THE DARKSIDE OF SDS aka www.originalstormtrooper.com

 

Give credit to the talented artists Liz Moore and Brian Muir who sculpted the Original Stormtrooper helmet and armour for Star Wars- A New Hope Court Judgement - Ainsworth vs Lucasfilm 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/367062635069/

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

this thread is awesome!

 

hits the nail on the head!

[Turrican]

 

https://www.facebook...s/367062635069/

 

 

I'm not on "assbook" so could someone may post that here?

[DroidHunter]

Simply the best reading I have done in ages! This stuff is pure gold. Thanks for keeping this stuff available for the nubes.

[Trying2]

great postings.

 

Don't have time right now to read it all 

 

But this addresses something I was very much interested in finding out.

 

And as usual, an idea is best brought out when there are two opposing sides speaking from facts.

 

Great discussion in what I have read so far. 

 

And yes, we can disagree, but agree to be respectful of each other's input.

[sskunky]

no matter how you sling it AA did the armor for the films.

 

it's sad that people just can't get over the fact that the original moulds were destroyed in a fire.

 

he had to "re-create" the bucks from "skins" he had saved aside from the moulds.

 

sort of a sad comporomise.

 

brian muir and liz moore did the original sculpts...; and then andrew sculpted his own to form with.

 

no matter what anyone thinks... he did the originals. just didn't originate the design.

 

he came up with the ears, and the sharper vocoder. those details are his.

Sorry to have to correct you but the original moulds were not destroyed in a fire as AA did not have the original moulds!

 

In fact the original moulds as far as I know are still alive in a workshop getting dusty.

A guy walks into the company I use for my forming to get some parts vac'd for the batboat on the last Batman movie. He was an older Modelmaker in his late 60's.

Anyway he sees one of my faceplates and says that looks familiar. The vac boys told him they make them for me. He says " it looks wrong" and was told that they were Rotj helmets.

 

Long story short.... Turns out this guy worked at the LFL plaster and vac rooms at Elstree and when LFL shut them down in the mid 80's they were going to throw everything away.

 

Yes you guessed it the original TK moulds! From ANH.

 

I tried to get hold of this guy through the vac shop but had no joy and they would not give me his number out of client curtesy. :doh:

 

Still haven't given up but goes to show you cannot believe everything you hear.

 

Incidentally AAs suits are a combination of TE and GF reworked as far as I'm led to believe.

 

Cheers!

[pandatrooper[TK]]

According to Brian Muir, he sculpted the armor, Liz Moore did the helmet. Elstree plaster dept pulled molds and plaster for the bucks for him to sharpen. Elstree did form some stuff then the vac machine broke down. Then they hired AA to pull the parts. He did NOT "resculpt" the helmet himself. Take a look at the video where he throws some clay into a pseudo TK faceplate (which looks horrible), then the video cuts to him using an angle grinder to "sculpt" it (because we all know sculptors use angle grinders) then cut to "voila!" Finished TK faceplate, which looks nothing like his sculpt.

 

Decide for yourselves, but the facts are out there. AA contributed a lot for the finishing of the TK and vac forming, no dispute there. He did not sculpt the helmet or armor, period. He was the fabricator to get things done for production.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

Sorry to have to correct you but the original moulds were not destroyed in a fire as AA did not have the original moulds!

 

In fact the original moulds as far as I know are still alive in a workshop getting dusty.

A guy walks into the company I use for my forming to get some parts vac'd for the batboat on the last Batman movie. He was an older Modelmaker in his late 60's.

Anyway he sees one of my faceplates and says that looks familiar. The vac boys told him they make them for me. He says " it looks wrong" and was told that they were Rotj helmets.

 

Long story short.... Turns out this guy worked at the LFL plaster and vac rooms at Elstree and when LFL shut them down in the mid 80's they were going to throw everything away.

 

Yes you guessed it the original TK moulds! From ANH.

 

I tried to get hold of this guy through the vac shop but had no joy and they would not give me his number out of client curtesy. :doh:

 

Still haven't given up but goes to show you cannot believe everything you hear.

 

Incidentally AAs suits are a combination of TE and GF reworked as far as I'm led to believe.

 

Cheers!

 

 

when you look at the facebook page that brian muir has created for "the dark side of SDS" he goes into a bit of detail regarding this.

 

and it would be interesting to see the elstree bucks... those would be the ones that AA most likely used and then had to return.

but most likely we'll never get the correct story.

 

I agree that the current SDS suit looks a ton like the GF and AP bucks...  perhaps AA just dropped a TE or AP suit into hydrocal and called it

good.

 

I don't support the SDS brand... or TE for that matter.

when the original work that AA did he HAD the original moulds from the elstree set.

but later on we see the problem with his re-introduction using some kind of found parts.

it's sure that AA must have taken TE/AP bucks as his 'New source"

 

it's interesting that MG has input on the design situatioin on the dark side of sds pages...and brian M takes MG's statements

as fact.  I for one don't believe anything that MG has to say either... but brian seems to take MG at face value.

 

the interesting parts of the question for me are "who sculpted the ears?" and "who sculpted the sandy knee plate and the TK knee plate?"

 

when you compare the clay sculpt that liz created, and then you look at the finished work using RS props as an excellent example

you can see differences... so there was an evolution between liz and the final sculpt.

the lines are not exactly the same...  her excellent work must have only been used as a guide.

from my observations the liz sculpt must not have been recast... but resculpted.

 

I'm sure that there must have been several different bucks by the time ESB and ROTJ went into production.

it shows in the CFO line as well... lot's of subtle changes!

 

keep up the good work there my friend!

Edited January 26, 2014 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[Turrican]

Just answer me one question:

 

AA still claim to use THE original moulds, so why for gods sake his stuff looks so absolute wrong compared to the original armours.

Just compare a SDS lid with an RS one and you know what i mean.

 

If he ever made any moulds or worked on any of them, he should see that that what he sells has nothing to do with anykind of an original origin.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Turrican

[troopermaster]

Because that's his sales pitch. 90% of his customers will be regular people who are either not in the hobby or don't know any different, and buy into his BS. It's pointless to argue over it any more.

[Tolo[TK]]

Are all the TIE, Rebel, Gunner, ect..., sculpted by Liz Moor too?

 

 

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[TK bondservnt[501st]]

everyone believes that AA made those... I have not seen any evidence that AA did not make the above mentioned designs.

[Turrican]

everyone believes that AA made those... I have not seen any evidence that AA did not make the above mentioned designs.

 

I don't believe it

[Griffin-X[TK]]

This is one of my favorite posts on FISD.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

well there is photographic evidence with AA standing next to a pile of TIE helmets?

 

 

notice the infamous 3rd hose is a lighter grey? and you can see that he's completed one chest box

and is wearing the upper body armor.

 

and his DVD series shows him constructing and showing how the base helmet uses an existing helmet

with the addition of the mowhawk and greeblies.

 

Edited February 7, 2014 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[Tolo[TK]]

I agree with the pull of the helmets. I've seen the pictures above and I'm kinda jealous about the picture of AA with all the TIE pilot loll.

 

But, I've read somewhere and I can't remember where that he had created the TIE and AT-AT helmet, with the TK faceplate. Just wondering if it's true.

 

 

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[Locitus[Admin]]

AA worked on forming the helmets for sure. But that's all common knowledge. Nowhere is it proven that he had any influence at all in actually designing any helmets. Other than what he himself claims. But AA is a liar who's testimony was thrown out of court, so it's foolish to trust his account. And if Ralph McQuarrie was alive I think he would have something to say about the design of the TIE pilots.

 

Besides, joining a TK hero faceplate with an X-wing helmet is no great feat, really.

[Tolo[TK]]

AA worked on forming the helmets for sure. But that's all common knowledge. Nowhere is it proven that he had any influence at all in actually designing any helmets. Other than what he himself claims. But AA is a liar who's testimony was thrown out of court, so it's foolish to trust his account. And if Ralph McQuarrie was alive I think he would have something to say about the design of the TIE pilots.

 

Besides, joining a TK hero faceplate with an X-wing helmet is no great feat, really.

 

Agree with everything you are saying Mathias. But, was the X-Wing pilot on McQuarrie's art?

 

 

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[Locitus[Admin]]

I haven't had time to find out if it was, but the x-wing itself certainly was.

[Locitus[Admin]]

Here's a TIE pilot anyway

[Tolo[TK]]

Nice, you can even see the rippled shoulder strap!!

 

 

 

 

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Edited February 8, 2014 by Tolo