E-11 Power Cylinders Research Thread (renamed from "3 Central Fuses...")

[PlayfulWolfCub]

The whole MIT website looks to be down.  I guess it'll get fixed sometime soon.  If you downloaded the pdf you could host it on Dropbox or something similar. (Do Photobucket & Flickr host pdfs?)

[sskunky]

Good point Andy. Hadn't thought of that!

[psychotropic]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1oyskhd1pk22oeq/MC665_r27_M-List-1.pdf?dl=0

 

Let me know what you think. If I was on the right track or not as Im not quite sure what that numbering system is or how it works.

 

Edit: See if you guys have any luck finding a picture. http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/search/?s=MIT+tube

 

 

p.s. found this too in my earlier searches. thought it was worth sharing http://soup.hackerspaces.org/tag/retrocomputing%20ibm%20punchcard%20sorter

Edited January 28, 2015 by psychotropic

[PlayfulWolfCub]

Hey Pat,

 

I'm loving those links you've given us - some really great photos! 

 

I don't think the Whirlwind is what we're looking for but don't stop looking... someone's got to find the thing eventually!

 

It was suggested by one fo the original propmakers that the rack parts were bought in a nearby surplus electronics/junk store in the UK.  I think it's unlikely that American surplus would have been in there so my focus has always been on British (or at least European) equipment.  That's not to say my focus is correct though so you follow your own instincts...

 

Cheers, Andy

[PlayfulWolfCub]

In other news...

 

 

If you love your E11 blaster enough to reach page 34 of this thread you might like my new one.

 

Check it out here:   http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/29898-quality-metal-e11-stormtrooper-blaster-stands/

 

 

Cheers, Andy

[nixiebunny]

Hi. I'm an electrical engineer of a certain age. I was sent a request by someone in this field of interest to offer ideas on how to identify this equipment.

 

First, the module is an IF amplifier of the type used in a radar or other specialized radio receiver system. It would be populated with a half dozen vacuum tubes of the 6AU6 or equivalent type. At least, that's what they used in most IF a,plifers at the time.

 

The mysterious cans with nuts on the ends are very likely to be radio-frequency transformers. Each transformer couples the signal from one tube to the next. That's why they are located between the tubes. Here's an American radio from the forties with a similar design:

 

http://www.ohio.edu/people/postr/bapix/M_91091C2.JPG

 

This one has its capacitors below the chassis, so you don't see them.

 

The transformers used in this equipment are rather unusual in shape. Military radios have requirements for ruggedness and repairability that are not present in commercial gear, so the designers spend a lot of money getting custom parts made for them. This means that there is likely to be NO SOURCE for these transformers, either surplus or new. Go ahead and make your own metal cans.

 

The three capacitors next to each tube are used to filter the DC voltages that keep the tube at its correct operating voltages. The 6AU6 tube needs three different DC votages, and each one needs a filter to keep radio signals out.

 

One of the photos of the amplifier strip shows a series of parts with wire coils around them below the chassis plate. Those are called choke coils, which is a type of inductor that filters the DC voltages in conjunction with the capacitors above the chassis plate.

 

If you want to figure out what model of British radar unit these came from, you will need to talk to a British ham radio enthusiast or military repair technician who's very old.

 

 

 

[psychotropic]

That would be me who contacted you David (pay no attention to my lame screen name, I flipped to a random page in a dictionary and pointed haha). Thanks so much for signing up and taking an interest in helping us become a little less ignorant with electronics haha. Its much appreciated. Its was driving me nuts not knowing what the exact function of those weird transformers were, so Im so glad I know now. 

 

Is this amp also similar design?

 

 

I was really on the complete wrong track for a while and it seems you guys were right all along. Sorry about that friends. I hope i didn't distract from the search too much. 

Edited January 30, 2015 by psychotropic

[PlayfulWolfCub]

Hi. I'm an electrical engineer of a certain age. I was sent a request by someone in this field of interest to offer ideas on how to identify this equipment.

 

Thanks very much for sharing your knowledge with us, David.  I've been looking at these things for a long time but you gave new info, particularly why the 3 capacitors are needed! 

 

Thanks, Pat, for inviting David.  You're definitely adding to the quest! 

 

Cheers, Andy

[Spike1007]

That was very informative. A lot of work and effort was put into this Research. Great job

[SlyFox740[TK]]

Andy if you are you still selling these Power Cylinders? I'm interested in buying a pair.

Edited December 2, 2015 by SlyFox740

[jkno]

Andy hasn't been online for a month already. I really hope our friend is ok.

[TK222]

Hi Guys, I've tried to contact Andy a few times and not had any response so hope he comes back soon.<br><br>

Cheers Mark TK222

[jkno]

To bring Andy back into the discussion I'll post another pic of the cylinders: you can again see the E-11 cylinders in the arrival to Dagobah scene when Luke tells R2: "Yes, I'm sure it's perfectly safe for droids" - on his right side (in front of you as it was filmed in that scene):

 

[psychotropic]

I still do some research on this from time to time. I feel like a detective haha. 

[SlyFox740[TK]]

This may be an obviously dumb question that's already been asked but I wonder if there's still anyone from the old Bapty & Co. we could ask some questions. There was a photo released of an original prop they dug out of their archives in recent years was there not?

Edited December 2, 2015 by SlyFox740

[psychotropic]

I could be remembering wrong and making this up, but didn't someone ask a prop-maker and they didn't know what it was from? 

 

also I was going to wait to post this till I had more info, cause I didn't want to derail anything or go on a wild goose chase, but I was looking at some stuff and got a few hunches. I've had a hunch lately that maybe it could be a tone generator. I though it could be maybe a generator from an old tube organ, or maybe a different part from a tube organ? While I was looking into it I found this, which is kind of the closest thing I've seen just in terms of how it looks and how its set up. 

 

-scroll down a bit till you get to the part about the generator. The metal chassis the tubes are in, as well as the coils and caps on the bottom, look similar

http://www.discretesynthesizers.com/nova/intro.htm

 

- a pic from a different sight. A different organ I think

 

Idk someone who knows more about this stuff can tell me if Im off. Just thought I'd post it anyway. I tried to sign up for vintage-radio.net but my thread never showed up after I wrote it. They know about old uk radio gear as well as old organs, so I thought that If anyone knew they would. Same story for an organ forum I tried to post on. 

 

Also If Im not mistaken neon lamps where commonly used in old organs to create octaves, and maybe some other function too I think. Is that what was on those posts or was that debunked, cause I forget haha?

 

edit- I forgot to mention I think some tube organs used pentodes too. 

Edited December 2, 2015 by psychotropic

[psychotropic]

Update 1: Someone on the organ forum said its an RF circuit. He said the compact layout and size of the capacitors means its not a tube organ and "obviously" a radio circuit. He also said its military and "Specifically a portable radio transmitter/receiver is my guess." So that narrows the search a bit. Ill keep you updated. I am such a nood with this 50s tech haha. Its painful to be so noobish while talking to all the super smart tech guys. The earliest audio gear or receiver I've ever worked on was 70s so I'm way out of my league haha. 

 

the thread if you want to fallow along and read pauls full response. So joining some old radio forums might be a good idea. 

http://www.organforum.com/forums/showthread.php?37955-The-Star-Wars-mystery-amp-tone-generator

Edited December 2, 2015 by psychotropic

[SlyFox740[TK]]

I was actually going to say maybe it's because of the fact it's military equipment that most electrical engineers don't recognize exactly where or what it's from. Most of them work largely with consumer electronics, or maybe industrial. But military electrical engineers were probably a special breed, maybe we need to look in that direction. Especially older senior military electrical engineers, they would probably recognize it easily.

 

I'm no electrician or anything but I'm a 30 year old guitarist and I've seen my fair share of vaccum tube / valve ampilifiers up close and personal.

Those bigger pipes on the power cylinder racks with open ends are definitely sockets for vaccum tubes of some kind. These type of vaccum tubes/valves were used for audio related equipment, they still are. The sound they add to a guitar is irreplaceable and players are pretty serious about their tube amplifiers and the vintage ones go for more than the brand new ones most of the time. Modern technology eventually replaced these vaccum tubes with solid state amplification. Generally this resulted in "clearer" sound in most products like FM radios and stereo amplifiers, ect. But as for the guitar I don't think that will ever change, The vaccum tube gave birth to distortion by over driving pre-amp section of the amplifier circuit and/or even the power amp section. At first its was just Blues players turning up their amps enough to add a mild "crunch" or "dirt" to the guitar.  Eventually players pushed amplifiers so hard they discovered distortion and gave birth to the sound of rock'n roll as we know it and the rest is history... The Beatles, The Who, ect, ect.

 This is probably one of, if not the only reason why they even still manufacture these vaccum tubes. They are literally irreplaceable when it comes to guitar. Computer programs, and digital equipment can emulate the sound of a tube guitar amp pretty well, but it's really just not the same and it will never replace the sound of plugging into a real tube amp.

 

So in conclusion if the origin of the E-11 Power Cylinders is from Military equipment, and it's Audio related. I was going to guess almost the exact same thing; I agree it was probably most likely some kind of radio transmitter/receiver equipment, and it would make sense it was portable since most military equipment generally needs to be mobile. Obviously everyone knows the scopes they put on the E-11 were also from military equipment not to mention the Sterling submachine gun itself, so this is definitely very possible. Also I just remembered someone on here had a pretty solid theory that the shiny rubber Stormtrooper neck seals were orignally from an old military scuba diving suit.

Edited December 3, 2015 by SlyFox740

[SlyFox740[TK]]

So just to recap we've seen these "Power Cylinders" on the following props:

 

Blastech E-11

Mousedroid

Landspeeder

Y-Wing Fighter

Luke's X-Wing Fighter

[psychotropic]

Yea I'm also a guitarist and recording engineer You dont see these small pentodes often in guitar land. I have restored some old receivers before and play tube amps, but this tech is much older and therefore new to me since I started reading through this thread a while back. But its been really fun learning about all this old tech. Its so different. 

 

Its funny cause we pretty much know everything about this thing at this point except what specific gear it came from. I feel like we wont find pictures of it online though. Even good picture of the insides of consumer tech of this type and era seems "relatively" few and far between online. I kinda doubt we will find it, so our best bet is people. thats why I tried to join some forums. I even asked a friend in the UK if he knew any old military engineers or anything like that, and no specifics yet. Just gatta find the right radio enthusiast. He's out there somewhere. 

[SlyFox740[TK]]

I'm not sure if these are even the same thing but look on the side of the Sandtrooper backpack near the top.

From the Mos Eisley road block scene "These aren't the droids we're looking for"

Edited December 4, 2015 by SlyFox740

[psychotropic]

The UK radio forum denied my thread and banned me cause "we are not a model making forum" jeeze. I've been on various forums for the better part of a decade and never had anything like that happen. They take themselves too seriously. I'm all out of ideas. If anyone else wants to try their luck asking around of radio forums be my guest, but looks like I won't be. Guess this will always just be a mystery. 

[SlyFox740[TK]]

Since I can't seem to buy a pair from Andy right now, In his absence I have been trying to build my own pair of "screen accurate" power cylinders. So far I have been able to source a Lot of 40 real Vintage Capacitors almost exactly like the ones Andy puts his screen accurate decals on, they're slightly different in model number but identical in shape, size and color.

Edited December 8, 2015 by SlyFox740

[PlayfulWolfCub]

A million apologies guys – it’s been so long since I was on FISD that Paul Troopermaster drove to my house last night to make sure I was ok!   

 

Thanks very much for making that effort Paul, and thanks to all the guys who’ve emailed/PMed well-wishing messages.  I feel I should explain a bit about why I’ve been so hard to get hold of.

 

I have a long-term health condition which has been worse this year and has been really bad the last few months.  It isn’t life-threatening but it impacts heavily on my life and what I’m able to do.  I usually manage it quite well but this year’s been much tougher and eventually I became totally exhausted.  I had to just stop everything, not just FISD

 

I feel really bad how long some people are waiting for things they asked me to make (and in some cases I’ve not even managed to reply to messages ).  All I can do is apologise and assure you that it’s not intentional & I’ll remedy it as soon as I can.

 

I promise I haven’t forgotten about any of you.  I do still hope to make all the blaster parts that are on the waiting lists and start making the E11 stands (although that’s clearly going to be a 2016 project now…)  In fact, I’ve got 2 sets of Power Cylinders that got nearly finished and I’m going to try to finish them before Christmas… 

 

If you’ve contacted me about anything and I didn’t reply, please accept my apologies and try again.  (I have 6 email accounts with a billion unanswered emails – I’ll try to work through them but a fresh email is more likely to get noticed & replied to.)

 

Cheers, Andy

Edited December 8, 2015 by PlayfulWolfCub

[jkno]

Glad to hear from you again Andy!!