The Modded Hasbro Toy Blater

[huttman[TK]]

In the pic The ESB/ROTJ blaster cost me $80.00, and the resin ANH cost me $100.00...so, as you all can see they are not much more that the moded hasbro

 

 

uh, i spent 19 on the hasbro, and 20 on the mods 30 dollars is still 30 dollars

 

 

this topic of "Eliteness" seems to be neverending because of all the different views. You cant possibly imagine everyone agreeing here. Even on the obvious points, which may not be that obvious to others. It does however make for some interesting reading.

 

 

Im going to steer this in another direction. If i understand this right, Elite is what, suppose to be screen accurate? I for one wouldnt be in one for trooping. a lot of suits or costumes people are nagging because they arent "screen accurate" is hogwash to me. take the jawas for example. those costumes up close were ugly and falling apart. i wouldnt want that "screen accurate" because too many people would be having the chance to have a "closer look" at me, if im wearing the one from the movie, most people will think im crazy for wearing it, and for the ones who are not as knowledgeable in the costume, wont appreciate it.

 

 

anyway, my wording may not be the best here, but someone may understand where im going.

[Kahler TK-8029]

You can see pics of both my upgraded MR E-11, and my modified Hasbro in this thread... http://whitearmor.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1704

 

I'll probably use the MR when I submit my pics for ANH Elite status, but as far as regular trooping, I'll still use my Hasbro. It's quite a bit lighter. LOL!!!

[TK8280]

uh, i spent 19 on the hasbro, and 20 on the mods 30 dollars is still 30 dollars

 

uh, thats good for you, but it isn't the case for everyone

 

this topic of "Eliteness" seems to be neverending because of all the different views. You cant possibly imagine everyone agreeing here. Even on the obvious points, which may not be that obvious to others. It does however make for some interesting reading.

 

Are you ever going to do an Elite TK?

 

 

Im going to steer this in another direction. If i understand this right, Elite is what, suppose to be screen accurate? I for one wouldnt be in one for trooping. a lot of suits or costumes people are nagging because they arent "screen accurate" is hogwash to me.

 

Thanks for your opinion

 

if im wearing the one from the movie, most people will think im crazy for wearing it, and for the ones who are not as knowledgeable in the costume, wont appreciate it.

 

There is a difference with screen accurate and screen correct, the suits that were made for the movie were made to last 2 - 6 weeks at a time, they weren't made to last year after year

 

If you haven't already noticed these elite troopers on this board don't do it for others, they do it for theselves and there own levels of accuracy

[TK8280]

You can see pics of both my upgraded MR E-11, and my modified Hasbro in this thread... http://whitearmor.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1704

 

I'll probably use the MR when I submit my pics for ANH Elite status, but as far as regular trooping, I'll still use my Hasbro. It's quite a bit lighter. LOL!!!

 

Yes! the modded hasbro blaster is great for trooping with and for "Normal" 501st TK's

[Apollo]

Bernard, could you tell me what the difference between "screen accurate" and "screen correct" are? I'm not sure what you mean when you say that.

 

Also, I'm glad that Huttman chimed in with the price for his blaster with the conversion. I had assumed that it was somewhere around there until someone said $75 (I forget who). 30 or 40 bucks is pretty cheap

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Wow, how did I miss this thread? Here is my $.02...

 

In my Nirvana there would be no FX armor in the 501st and no Hasbro blasters. However, Nirvana is not reality. The current reality is that the FX armor is 501st acceptable, as is the Hasbro blaster.

 

One of the goals of this detachment and Elite standards was to promote excellence in costuming, not to provide some overly hard to obtain standard that captures every minor detail.

 

What we wanted were goals that any 501st stormtrooper could achieve. They must also capture the visible, differentiating features of the costume. This is why we specify the split back. This is why we include frown details.

 

And in truth these Elite standards don't cost a lot of money. What really are we talking about? None of them really require much of a budget at all, and most are just cleaning up the presentation of what's in the kit. The only thing that takes any real modification of the kit was the cutting of the back plate. This is fact a far, far easier mod to achieve than cutting your ab plate such as required for MEPD Officer status. Only the ROTJ option has some extreme modification.

 

As far as the Hasbro, I think it should be fine. A well done Hasbro upgraded can look good.

 

Also - and this came up many times - before we tighten up the standards further let's first get people into it. We have just 9 out of over 1000 stormtroopers on the Elite page. When 50% of the TK's in the 501st are Elite, then it may be time to up the standard. But for now - I'd rather concentrate on getting the other 1000+ TK's up to this standard. If they so choose.

 

Also, it's a great target for new troopers. Almost every new TD coming in to the Legion goes for MEPD standards from the get-go. I think this is a good thing. Ideally all new TK's will do their armor Elite (or close to it) from the beginning.

[huttman[TK]]

it seems my opinions hold not much value, which is understandable since im still a bit of a newb as far as costuming goes.

 

 

btw was this ment to say i paid to much or to little? Sarcasm? (see what i mean?)

 

uh, i spent 19 on the hasbro, and 20 on the mods 30 dollars is still 30 dollars wink.gif

 

uh, thats good for you, but it isn't the case for everyone

[Daetrin[Admin]]

I know about the FX armor being innacurate but, I do not think that the FX armor should be gotten rid of, because there are those of us who do not have the body type or head size of the Skinny 1970's english guy's that were in the original movie

 

Not really true. Remember the lesson of CMANavy? He fit into TE armor. Some parts are certainly bigger (like the chest), but others are actually almost the same size if you use a measuring tape - just the contours are different.

 

Turn that around - why would you ever allow then FX armor on people under 6'? But we - the 501st - does, as long as it's sized appropriately.

 

My dislike of the FX is partly related to accuracy, but more so that it's not proportioned to most people's bodies, especially when we don't let other costume types wear inappropriately sized costumes.

 

Back on target for the Hasbro - one object lesson is that quality should not mean price. Perhaps someday when hyperfirms cost $50, we can rid of it. My $.02...

[Daetrin[Admin]]

If i understand this right, Elite is what, suppose to be screen accurate?

Nope. Not at all. It's supposed to help raise the quality bar of the 501st stormtrooper costume. Being 100% screen accurate is not the goal.

 

If 100% of the Legion was what is now Elite, yup we'd raise the bar. But that wasn't our intent, as it's not practical for most members, and we are a costuming club after all.

 

The standards as set are actually fairly easy to achieve - at least on par with MEPD and probably easier than Lancer - so I don't think they are out of line. Unless we talk ROTJ...but I'm not familiar enough with biker scouts to compare ROTJ Elite to Lancer.

[TK8280]

Bernard, could you tell me what the difference between "screen accurate" and "screen correct" are? I'm not sure what you mean when you say that.

 

Also, I'm glad that Huttman chimed in with the price for his blaster with the conversion. I had assumed that it was somewhere around there until someone said $75 (I forget who). 30 or 40 bucks is pretty cheap

sure, I'll try to answer that question for ya

To me, "Screen correct" means that it will look good when the film is shot, not to the eye of the public or in real life action, such as using tape for armor parts and such..."Screen accurate" mean's that your suit of Armor is 100% detailed to those visions that GL originally had for the TK.

[TK8280]

it seems my opinions hold not much value, which is understandable since im still a bit of a newb as far as costuming goes.

btw was this ment to say i paid to much or to little? Sarcasm? (see what i mean?)

 

I know you were being sarcastic , sorry if I sounded like I was singling you out, but I wasn't, I was trying to address your comments one by one Because they are very important to this panel...we need to see how everyone feels about this topic, I was kind of dissapointed that there weren't more people here to chime in

[TK8280]

I know about the FX armor being innacurate but, I do not think that the FX armor should be gotten rid of, because there are those of us who do not have the body type or head size of the Skinny 1970's english guy's that were in the original movie

 

Not really true. Remember the lesson of CMANavy? He fit into TE armor. Some parts are certainly bigger (like the chest), but others are actually almost the same size if you use a measuring tape - just the contours are different.

 

Turn that around - why would you ever allow then FX armor on people under 6'? But we - the 501st - does, as long as it's sized appropriately.

 

My dislike of the FX is partly related to accuracy, but more so that it's not proportioned to most people's bodies, especially when we don't let other costume types wear inappropriately sized costumes.

 

Back on target for the Hasbro - one object lesson is that quality should not mean price. Perhaps someday when hyperfirms cost $50, we can rid of it. My $.02...

 

Not really true. Remember the lesson of CMANavy? He fit into TE armor. Some parts are certainly bigger (like the chest), but others are actually almost the same size if you use a measuring tape - just the contours are different.

 

Joe fits into his armor fine thats true

 

Turn that around - why would you ever allow then FX armor on people under 6'? But we - the 501st - does, as long as it's sized appropriately.

 

Yes, I don't think they should allow it to be used for people under 6' tall and under 200lb's

 

My dislike of the FX is partly related to accuracy, but more so that it's not proportioned to most people's bodies, especially when we don't let other costume types wear inappropriately sized costumes.

 

YES! I have had this same issue with my garrisson, if the 501st is SO ANAL about the Fetts and Siths, why not be just as anal about the TK's???

 

Back on target for the Hasbro - one object lesson is that quality should not mean price. Perhaps someday when hyperfirms cost $50, we can rid of it. My $.02...

 

I agree

[TK8280]

I am sorry all, I guess my topic was a little pre-mature, and should maybe be braught up in the future when we do have more TK's who have reached elite status anyways carry on everyone

[Apollo]

It was good for discussion. Don't get me wrong, I would love it if I thought it were practical to upgrade those standards to have only exactingly detailed costumes. Maybe sometime in the future

[Scott M.[TK]]

I also agree it is a good discussion, and maybe more importantly, a good example of a how a civilized discussion can take place.

 

Keep up the questions. We all know you cannot make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time, but it is good to ask great questions like this.

 

[TK8280]

Yeah talk about a hot topic I also think that questions like this help keep us all on the same page as everyone else for the future if this should ever come up again in the next couple of years

[ItchyNutsDesign]

As a blaster builder, I thought I'd throw my opinion into the mix

 

Firstly, I don't see what the problem is with setting a very high standard for 'Elite', surely that is what the word means, if everyone had it, it wouldn't be elite. Secondly, the harder somethng is to achieve, the bigger the reward when you achieve it. It would really 'up' the status of those who have qualified, giving them a kudos that others could aspire too. There's too much mediocrity in the world as it is, there's nothing wrong with making something difficult to achieve.

 

After all, this has absolutely no baring on whether a person is allowed to troop or not, these aren't 501st standards, no one is saying that they have to be met straight away, they are something to strive for.

 

I do a toy conversion

 

But I generally guide people towards my pipe blaster because of the accuracy issue, the Kenner is wrong in almost every way.

 

I think that even with the best intentions, the toy still looks like a toy (especially with the 'donkey down a well' sound effects). This isn't a financial decision either, I charge more for the toy conversion because I have the added overheads of the toy blaster on top. I understand that the Kenner conversion is a cheap alternative for people to do themselves, that's great, get one, go troop, but if you have the skills to convert a kenner, you could get much the same parts, stick them to a bit of pipe and have an accurate blaster for less money (no toy to buy)!

 

I think there's nothing wrong with expecting more movie accuracy for your 'Elite' troopers than the kenner can offer. I don't think we should be equating the Kenner blaster with the FX lid, a better comparison, would be someone turning up at a troop in a Rubie's lid!

 

Just my opinion

[TK8280]

As a blaster builder, I thought I'd throw my opinion into the mix

 

Firstly, I don't see what the problem is with setting a very high standard for 'Elite', surely that is what the word means, if everyone had it, it wouldn't be elite. Secondly, the harder somethng is to achieve, the bigger the reward when you achieve it. It would really 'up' the status of those who have qualified, giving them a kudos that others could aspire too. There's too much mediocrity in the world as it is, there's nothing wrong with making something difficult to achieve.

 

After all, this has absolutely no baring on whether a person is allowed to troop or not, these aren't 501st standards, no one is saying that they have to be met straight away, they are something to strive for.

 

I do a toy conversion

 

But I generally guide people towards my pipe blaster because of the accuracy issue, the Kenner is wrong in almost every way.

 

I think that even with the best intentions, the toy still looks like a toy (especially with the 'donkey down a well' sound effects). This isn't a financial decision either, I charge more for the toy conversion because I have the added overheads of the toy blaster on top. I understand that the Kenner conversion is a cheap alternative for people to do themselves, that's great, get one, go troop, but if you have the skills to convert a kenner, you could get much the same parts, stick them to a bit of pipe and have an accurate blaster for less money (no toy to buy)!

 

I think there's nothing wrong with expecting more movie accuracy for your 'Elite' troopers than the kenner can offer. I don't think we should be equating the Kenner blaster with the FX lid, a better comparison, would be someone turning up at a troop in a Rubie's lid!

 

Just my opinion

 

I agree with you Justin , unfortunately it looks like we are a minority here

[Kahler TK-8029]

I don't know, I'm pretty proud of my Hasbro/Kenner conversion. It's not 100% screen acurate, and the pics don't do it any justice, in person, it looks a lot better.

 

[TK8280]

Great job on the conversion!

[BactaReality]

Unless I'm mistaken, elite status is just that right, a status, it's not a reward for having spent x amount of time or money on your costume right? Although at the moment we only see less than a dozen members having attained or requested elite status, I know that figure is far from being an accurate assessment of how many TKs that are out there that have accurate armor and blasters.

 

It's true that not everyone can fit into an accurate kit, and not everyone can afford to spend the amount of time, money and energy to get their kits up to a higher standard, but that's what elite is all about is it not? I would think that a row of elite troopers all gathered together for a photo should all look uniform, otherwise there's really no point in having an elite status to begin with. At the moment it's just a way of being able to pat someone on the back and say great job, you've gone the extra mile and shown some genuine interest in your work. What exactly would be the point in having a rank or status that requires accuracy, but doesn't have the integrity it needs to truly be what it claims to be. The blaster is the smallest factor in that it seems to be the easiest to obtain an accurate version, so why not up the bar at least with that. The next step would be to up the bar on helmets.

 

It seems like what we're truly after is a secondary level or intermediate level that would allow a higher rank or status to those using less accurate parts modified to resemble more accurate parts. Is it really fair to the individual who spent so much time and money and patience to get their gear as screen accurate as possible, only to give just about anyone the same recognition, even though it's clearly obvious the differences and discrepancies. If it's true that other detachments have a higher standard than us, then I'd have to ask, why?

 

This whole issue kinda reminds me of when my kid played soccer for a league that did'nt keep score. I know that the intentions are to keep anyone from feeling bad about themselves, or left out, or whatever, but last I checked, we're all more or less grown men here. If we can't handle the fact that we can't all be on the same level in everything, then we all have some growing up to do.

 

Sorry guys, but I'm gonna have to vote for a uniform standard when it comes to indoctrinating an elite status system.

There's nothing wrong with modified toy blasters, but we should keep a certain level of consistency when it comes to being "elite". I know it's tough for some of you guys, but like I stated, a group of elites should all look the same, blaster included.

[ItchyNutsDesign]

I agree, that's a great conversion. However the blaster still suffers from having a funny shaped 'toy' handle, the mag cylinders (or at least Kenner's aproximation of them), on the top of the weapon, the front sight too far back (where you've had to extend the barrel to get it closer to accurate), the funny square 'lump' on the back underside and in all fairness, you've altered a lot more of your blaster than most people do (replaced the sight, barrel fins, extended the barrel etc).

 

Like I said, top conversion, but f you are going to go to that much effort, why not just build an accurate blaster from pipe? You would only need a couple of other components and some pipe. Why use a Kenner at all? I can't see how it would be any harder to build a 'screen accurate' blaster for Elite clearance?

[ItchyNutsDesign]

Unless I'm mistaken, elite status is just that right, a status, it's not a reward for having spent x amount of time or money on your costume right? Although at the moment we only see less than a dozen members having attained or requested elite status, I know that figure is far from being an accurate assessment of how many TKs that are out there that have accurate armor and blasters.

 

It's true that not everyone can fit into an accurate kit, and not everyone can afford to spend the amount of time, money and energy to get their kits up to a higher standard, but that's what elite is all about is it not? I would think that a row of elite troopers all gathered together for a photo should all look uniform, otherwise there's really no point in having an elite status to begin with. At the moment it's just a way of being able to pat someone on the back and say great job, you've gone the extra mile and shown some genuine interest in your work. What exactly would be the point in having a rank or status that requires accuracy, but doesn't have the integrity it needs to truly be what it claims to be. The blaster is the smallest factor in that it seems to be the easiest to obtain an accurate version, so why not up the bar at least with that. The next step would be to up the bar on helmets.

 

It seems like what we're truly after is a secondary level or intermediate level that would allow a higher rank or status to those using less accurate parts modified to resemble more accurate parts. Is it really fair to the individual who spent so much time and money and patience to get their gear as screen accurate as possible, only to give just about anyone the same recognition, even though it's clearly obvious the differences and discrepancies. If it's true that other detachments have a higher standard than us, then I'd have to ask, why?

 

This whole issue kinda reminds me of when my kid played soccer for a league that did'nt keep score. I know that the intentions are to keep anyone from feeling bad about themselves, or left out, or whatever, but last I checked, we're all more or less grown men here. If we can't handle the fact that we can't all be on the same level in everything, then we all have some growing up to do.

 

Sorry guys, but I'm gonna have to vote for a uniform standard when it comes to indoctrinating an elite status system.

There's nothing wrong with modified toy blasters, but we should keep a certain level of consistency when it comes to being "elite". I know it's tough for some of you guys, but like I stated, a group of elites should all look the same, blaster included.

 

 

Exactly

 

And let's not forget... We are the 501st legion, we are the BEST, let's not rest on our laurels when it comes to our Elite, they should be something really special.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

I think Kahler's blaster is exactly the example I'm talking about when I said a conversion can be made to look good.

 

I can understand people wanting Elite to be more stringent than it is, but let's not forget the main goal: to encourage and reward excellence in costuming, not to be the penultimate standard that can be achieved.

 

If you look at MEPD standards, they don't specify exactly how the pack should look, or that the BFG must be a spot on replica of an MG-34 or Lewis. And it was only recently that the MEPD standards were tightened up to include things like the tears/traps.

 

This detachment is supposed to help the Legion. We're supposed to help and encourage our fellow members to improve their costumes. Right now the current state of affairs for Legion TK's - while strong at one point - has been neglected and is now not overly stringent. Elite is part of the process of raising the bar, but it still needs to be achievable for Legion members.

 

Let's not lose sight of that.

[Butah Fett]

I can understand people wanting Elite to be more stringent than it is, but let's not forget the main goal: to encourage and reward excellence in costuming, not to be the penultimate standard that can be achieved.

This is exactly why I have always been against using the word "elite." It then makes people things aren't good enough. I think it's too dismissive to say a Hasbro can't be made to look damn good. Again using Kahler's blaster as an example of how it can look, it shows you it can be made to work. Pretty much any set of armor can be made to fit the deployment status with some effort.

 

In the end it's all in what you put into it, not how much you spend on it.