Rich330[TK] Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) I'm trying to find out as much as I can about the original ROTJ strapping system. The discussion stems from this topic: http://forum.whitearmor.net/index.php?showtopic=9746&st=100 I'd like to carry on here and would be grateful for any input ... There is a photo of an ROTJ trooper wearing braces that hold up the thighs. In the pic the guy is standing in front of a table wearing only the thighs and a black undersuit. You can see the braces over his shoulders. They're connected to the belt and garters that hold up his thighs. Look at CFO's pics on facebook, they have that one in on of their galleries. I know the one. This one! If braces were used, is there a connection between the a. back and kidney, b. chest and abdomen or c. chest and back? The parts don't seem to flap around and and I can't see anything connecting the chest and back. The back never seems to overlap over the kidney either. This suggests to be that there is a connection between 1. chest and ab and 2. back and kidney (like in the sketch). There's also something sticking out of the back of this trooper's armour (on the left of the picture) too which looks like strapping between the back and kidney. It makes sense to me that the armour was connected roughly like in ANH becasue of the way it sits together and because they were basically trying to reproduce the original suits. So why braces? Extra security? I'm not a big fan of the braces solution either but when I put together my ROTJ suit, I want to get it right. Edited May 24, 2011 by Rick330 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich330[TK] Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 I have a theory ... Is it possible that the braces (US = suspenders) are connected to the garter belt assembly for the thighs? Is it possibly just there to hold the belt up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich330[TK] Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 More evidence of those familiar ANH-style vertical connections ... Evidence of a "clam shell" system ... More stuff I have managed to collect (most of it here on the forum or from Joe and Mark ofCfO) but it's nice to pool it in one thread) ... This sketch is looking more and more accurate, the more I keep researching .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Good topic! Hopefully someone "in the know" speaks up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich330[TK] Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Yeah, I'd love any input of any kind. Just want to know as much as I can about the original strapping system, not just the braces and stuff already mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeR Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Really interesting thread. I don't have much to add other than after looking at screencaps I am convinced that there was foam or something else 'pushing' out the shoulder bells from the inside, you can see screencaps where the elastic is wrapped around the arm but the bells are sitting very wide against the arm. Here are some more useful shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locitus[Admin] Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 What's up with the belt on the promo picture, it looks like the white webbing belt is going inside his butt/kidney plate and not over the outside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich330[TK] Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Cheers, Joe. Yeah, the bells always look very flared but I always presumed that might be due to the narrow pinch, i.e. the shoulders don't fit right into the bells. Did Mark do a full strapping system on his Endor suit or is it just the assembled armour pieces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeR Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) That is a really good point Rich, in that case our bells need to be more pinched at the top... Anyway sorry for the slightly OT. I think Mark has done a full strapping system, will let him chime in. Another point to bear in mind is that if John B's suit above was made at the time of ESB (as per theory on SWHelmets), it may have a different strapping system to the actual ROTJ suits. Edited May 24, 2011 by JoeR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nassik Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 What's up with the belt on the promo picture, it looks like the white webbing belt is going inside his butt/kidney plate and not over the outside? I suspect that was a mistake when the armor was put on. Doing so also allowed them to forget the thermal detonator, which you wouldn't see in that picture anyway. What I do notice in that picture is that there are two rivets on the outer edge of the belt. It looks like one holds the drop box in place and the other connects to the canvas belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich330[TK] Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 That is a really good point Rich, in that case our bells need to be more pinched at the top... They look spot-on to me (don't got changing them!) You see on this suit as well that you can get them to sit snugly over the shoulders ... I think Mark has done a full strapping system, will let him chime in. Another point to bear in mind is that if John B's suit above was made at the time of ESB (as per theory on SWHelmets), it may have a different strapping system to the actual ROTJ suits. Good point. Is the other picture above that I just posted the same "John B" suit? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkrestonva[TK] Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Moved to Advanced ROTJ Costuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrazor Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 thanks brain great thread. foam in the shoulders would explain that ROTJ buff trooper look. i always assumed there was padding or something to make them look more wide at the shoulders. but this could also be for improved arm movement? also it is very evident that a bit more effort went into the ROTJ strapping and armor design to make it more practical. note the lack of gaffers tape in ROTJ compared to ANH/ESB in which almost every trooper had broken armor parts or strapping malfunctions. it is my theory that the prop department learned from there mistakes in the previous films and designed new strapping for more freedom of movement while putting less stress on the armor by using velcro in place of snaps/glue and bolts in some areas and going nuts with the rivet gun. also the removal of all return edges on the torso was likely to prevent cracking as well as the door trim to prevent tearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nassik Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 On one of the strapping diagrams I see two elastic straps connecting the upper back to the kidney plate. Here's an example of a third strap in the center of the two plates... You can just see the center strap on the left trooper. Comparing this with an earlier photo of a falling ROTJ trooper showing an off-center strap suggests that there were three straps connecting those plates. When my TE kit was originally delivered it had the three-strap connection between those plates as well. One strap in the centers of those plates and one on either side under the outer edges of the OII back box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turrican Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Don't know, may this few pic's are usefull, found them on flickr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich330[TK] Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Good stuff, Shawn and Stefan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrazor Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 very nice!! and is that foam padding i see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich330[TK] Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Well, I'll be .... well spotted, Mason! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nassik Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 That picture and the way the bells are sitting on the mannequin say padding to me. They're lifted and away from the shoulders and I think that padding is the reason why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nassik Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) How do you think the shoulder bridges are attached? The Centurion requirements call for glued bridges but the earlier diagrams say they were Velcroed in position and the above pictures show the bridges resting just off of the armor. That suggests that there could be Velcro beneath them. Edited May 24, 2011 by Nassik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrazor Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 another thought.. could the deformations in some of the shoulder bells be caused by the adhesive used to attach the foam? hot glue? or a chemical reaction that caused softening? i say this because the pinched in sides of the bells seems to differ slightly from trooper to trooper. could have been the molds i suppose but just an observation as the foam is placed directly under the deformed section of the bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrazor Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 How do you think the shoulder bridges are attached? The Centurion requirements call for glued bridges but the earlier diagrams say they were Velcroed in position and the above pictures show the bridges resting just off of the armor. That suggests that there could be Velcro beneath them. that has been corrected original These shall be securely mounted in front and may free float in back. They may be affixed with rivets, Velcro, or adhesive No visible rivets are allowed. Shoulder straps shall not have a flat end at the ends of them. They shall be ribbed 100%. These shall be glued in front. These shall be affixed in the back (no snaps, rivets or brads shall be visible). changed 03. Shoulder Straps: These shall be securely mounted in front and may free float in back. They may be affixed with rivets, Velcro, or adhesive No visible rivets are allowed. Shoulder straps shall not have a flat end at the ends of them. They shall be ribbed 100%. These shall be affixed in the front (no snaps, rivets or brads shall be visible). These shall be affixed in the back (no snaps, rivets or brads shall be visible). sound better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nassik Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Cool. That means that I can restore the Velcro to my bridges. Thanks, Mason. That falls in line with the diagrams and what I'm seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrazor Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 yes i agree fully that the shoulder bridges were in fact affixed with velcro. if they were glued there would likely be gaffers tape seen holding them on as in ESB/ANH. also another practical change was the use of rivets on the sniper plate. if you look at ANH screens many of the sniper plates appear to be chewed up pretty bad. (most noticeable on Han's Knee) it looks like my dog chewed it up. it is likely due to the knee rubbing against the thigh armor when moving. screen used ROTJ sniper plate rivets allow the sniper plate to move and this prevented the chewed up knees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordietrooper Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 isn't that a tour suit if so would it be strapped like a screen used ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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