Armor History Discussion

[TK-4510[501st]]

This is not a TE bashing thread or a Bashing thread for anyone else. Lets keep it civil...

 

That being said:)

1. Where did the ROTJ molds come from?

2. When exaclty were the molds made?

3. Are there pics of the first completed suit?

4. Does anyone know how to get ahold of "Dave", "Mike", and "Gerardo" for their opinoins and what not?

5. Lets discuss the discovery of the armor not the deals. We have a semi clear picture of what transpired so lets move on.

[TK-4935]

This is not a TE bashing thread or a Bashing thread for anyone else. Lets keep it civil...

 

That being said:)

1. Where did the ROTJ molds come from?

2. When exaclty were the molds made?

3. Are there pics of the first completed suit?

4. Does anyone know how to get ahold of "Dave", "Mike", and "Gerardo" for their opinoins and what not?

5. Lets discuss the discovery of the armor not the deals. We have a semi clear picture of what transpired so lets move on.

 

good man, at last someone has seen the light and hit the nail on the head. nobody really cares about the deals or who lied to who, or who ripped off who. frankly it's just very dull so lets get down to brass taks.

if Matt or Gino have any sense they'll see that they have one thing in common with each other and just about everybody else here and that is the obsession/love, whatever you wanna call it, with armour.

take yourselves back to that first rush, the first time you glanced at screen used stuff, the first pulls of a kit, thought processes, working progress on re-working ROTJ to ANH etc and share it (i mean really share it, not talk in riddles and hints).

TK-4510, by continualy forcing the thread back to relevant questions i think we may get somewhere. my hats off to ya.

[Guest T*E]

good man, at last someone has seen the light and hit the nail on the head. nobody really cares about the deals or who lied to who, or who ripped off who. frankly it's just very dull so lets get down to brass taks.

if Matt or Gino have any sense they'll see that they have one thing in common with each other and just about everybody else here and that is the obsession/love, whatever you wanna call it, with armour.

take yourselves back to that first rush, the first time you glanced at screen used stuff, the first pulls of a kit, thought processes, working progress on re-working ROTJ to ANH etc and share it (i mean really share it, not talk in riddles and hints).

TK-4510, by continualy forcing the thread back to relevant questions i think we may get somewhere. my hats off to ya.

Too bad your memory is shot. You called my house at your request to speak to me about the suit. Seems to me you have a sleective memory since i di not tell you what you want to hear. And guess what, my opinion is fact. Your budies ever been to the archives and compared the suit you have to what they have there? NOPE.

 

So its not an opinion, it is a fact. So take it or leave it John, but you did call and we spoke for at least 45 minutes.

 

T*E

[Guest T*E]

Matt this isnt a "bash TE" thread, but more of a "BUYER BEWARE" thread. You can list all the excuses you want but like I keep saying - HOW COME SO MANY PEOPLE RAISE CONCERN ABOUT THEIR DEALS WITH YOU?

 

You're answers has them all wrong, and you right. Funny that!

 

Oh and dont accuse me of "threatening" you when I haven't. I'm sorry if you're feeling the pressure.

 

Cheers

 

Jez

Then stop posting the s*** you think as fact as fact. You have nothing right and it really surprises me. Here is why: I may not like you much, but I do respect you. That said I would have thought someone in the position you hold with an info website would be contacting people on both sides to get stories straight instead of taking misinformation and running with it.

 

Thats all..

 

T*E

[BactaReality]

Psst,.. hey... you quoted the wrong guy dude.

 

I think you meant to quote John's post, not Simons eh?

[TK-4510[501st]]

1. Where did the ROTJ molds come from?

2. When exaclty were the molds made?

3. Are there pics of the first completed suit?

4. Does anyone know how to get ahold of "Dave", "Mike", and "Gerardo" for their opinoins and what not?

5. Lets discuss the discovery of the armor not the deals. We have a semi clear picture of what transpired so lets move on.

[Guest T*E]

Psst,.. hey... you quoted the wrong guy dude.

 

I think you meant to quote John's post, not Simons eh?

 

Yeah, I am tired.. Johns post.. sorry Simon. No disrepect meant to anyone.

 

T*E

[tk0084[501st]]

1. Where did the ROTJ molds come from?

2. When exaclty were the molds made?

3. Are there pics of the first completed suit?

4. Does anyone know how to get ahold of "Dave", "Mike", and "Gerardo" for their opinoins and what not?

5. Lets discuss the discovery of the armor not the deals. We have a semi clear picture of what transpired so lets move on.

 

Sadly I don't think that these questions will be answered because the ego's that know the answers want to fight about personal deals & have everyone bow to them & claim their infinite armor wisdom.

[Scott M.[TK]]

Sadly I don't think that these questions will be answered because the ego's that know the answers want to fight about personal deals & have everyone bow to them & claim their infinite armor wisdom.

 

I think that is part of the real reason for the questions, especially "Question #5" (not really a question, more of a statement.)

 

I personally feel Gino, Matt, Jez, Dan, Joey, and the others I have left out due to my head spinning on this can all be considered "experts." Taken from the online dictionary:

 

ex·pert (kspûrt)

n.

1. A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject.

 

Now we can all agree that each of these people qualify. The issue is to get beyond the personal deals and find out how the armor came to be what it is today.

 

[GINO]

The issue is to get beyond the personal deals and find out how the armor came to be what it is today.

 

Isn't that in itself a contradiction?

You can't have an understanding of what it is today, if you don't understand THE PATH it took to get here.

[TK-4510[501st]]

I think we kinda get the path, but we need more history

[GINO]

The path IS the history.

[tk0084[501st]]

The path IS the history.

 

Gino, Matt, Jez, or anyone else. Please tell me & everyone here how the path of dealings between individuals w/the drama is history?

 

We have read time & again each interpretation of who has original molds, who sent/sold/stole from who, why, where, when, etc. None of these historical "facts" answer the 4 questions.

 

So who wants to be the expert & step up to answer the 4 questions that TK4510 has asked?

[BactaReality]

Isn't that in itself a contradiction?

You can't have an understanding of what it is today, if you don't understand THE PATH it took to get here.

 

 

Kinda like asking how hamburgers are made, but not wanting to hear about slaughtering cows.?

Not everyone will agree that meat is murder... or that any type of recasting is wrong regardless of who was paid off or how much was paid initially. I think we're all lucky to be able to get our hands on a set of armor, regardless of who's recasted work we decide to get. Unless you're doing the admirable thing and creating your own kit from scratch, it's odd to get so heated on intellectual property that technically isn't yours to begin with. But what do I know.

[Scott M.[TK]]

Isn't that in itself a contradiction?

You can't have an understanding of what it is today, if you don't understand THE PATH it took to get here.

 

I would agree, but only IF the accounts of what happened could be agreed upon. But the path is by definition a specific route in which to arrive at a destination. The challenge here, I think, is to find a productive way to understand exactly the path, and have it agreed upon by all parties. I know this is easier said than done

 

 

Kinda like asking how hamburgers are made, but not wanting to hear about slaughtering cows.?

 

True, although I think we can all agree that the process is the same regardless of who is describing it. After being 10 pages in, I realized Ed comment on the 4 Gospels is more right than we thought, except instead of focusing on different parts of the process to come to one overall ending, the details take us away for the ultimate goal. Maybe I am wrong, and these are parts of the history that need to be discussed, but it seems we spend more time in some details than needed, and not near enough in the ones that really matter.

 

This is not to say the details are not important in some regards; they are. My point was that if I want to know how hamburgers are made, I am not sure I need to know who bought what cow, and what cow was used to make a Big Mac vs. a whopper.

 

If we want to know how McDonalds makes the Big Mac, do we need to know how hamburgers are made?

 

I like to use my IT background to ask the question: "what problem are we trying to solve?", or better yet "what question are we trying to answer?"

[TK-4510[501st]]

I am very thankful that Matt and Gino have offered up info that some or all us have been wanting to know. I think this is the first thread that has held together long enoough to actually be usefull. We have gotten quite far in the first 10 pages. Now comes the more personal questions to answer though.

 

1. Where did the ROTJ molds come from? Did you stumble onto them at a yard sale somewhere? Was there an insider who got them to you for only a few days and you had to return them? Did you take out a second on the house and pay hard cash for them. Did someone throw away what they did not know they had? Whaaa???

 

 

2. When exaclty were the molds made? Lets get a nice timeline of Verson 1 and......

 

3. Are there pics of the first completed suit?........Pics to show the progress.

 

4. Does anyone know how to get ahold of "Dave", "Mike", and "Gerardo" for their opinoins and what not? Does anyone have GF's person email? I used to have it because I stumbled onto his website once. PM me and I will send him an invite. Same goes for the others behind this armor Dave and Mike....They need to speak up as well.

 

Dont let this thread die like 100 others before it. Lets get down to it and talk about what makes this armor soooooooooooo special. There's no sense in keeping anything a secret.

 

 

I found the old page with Matts armor and ROTJ helmet on it..

 

http://www.angelfire.com/wi/Wilder/ROTJsuit.html

 

 

After doing a bit of research, looks like GF got the C and D in 2000......

 

Here is John Pisa Relli: The attorney who helped GF get a settlement....

 

Here's a link to a complete build up of TE armor circa 2005

 ---------------

 

Gotta love google man!!!

Edited December 14, 2020 by gmrhodes13
link not working, removed gmrhodes13 2020

[TK8280]

Nice info you got there bro

[Stormtrooper]

Too bad your memory is shot. You called my house at your request to speak to me about the suit. Seems to me you have a sleective memory since i di not tell you what you want to hear. And guess what, my opinion is fact. Your budies ever been to the archives and compared the suit you have to what they have there? NOPE.

 

So its not an opinion, it is a fact. So take it or leave it John, but you did call and we spoke for at least 45 minutes.

 

T*E

 

I don't want to take the thread off-topic everyone, but I have to respond to this.

 

I'm speechless... I have never spoken to you on the phone Matt - either *your* memory is shot, or you are deliberately lying. I've exchanged emails with hundreds of people in the 'replica prop world' over the years but only ever spoken to about 10 or 12 in person or on the phone... so I think I would've remembered. And I'm a bit young for senile dementia at 31 years old!

 

Sorry everyone for the derailment... this thread has the potential for some interesting facts behind the whole movie-cast Stormtrooper armour biz... so long as the info provided is objective and factual.

 

Cheers,

John

[dirtydave]

Hey John,Can you post some pictures of your ROTJ armor.

[Stormtrooper]

Hey John,Can you post some pictures of your ROTJ armor.

 

Sure, I'll post some pics in a new thread, in the ROTJ Stormtroopers section tomorrow (kinda late here)

 

Cheers,

John

[dirtydave]

Thanks.It's been a while since I seen pictures of your armor.

[TK8280]

Sure, I'll post some pics in a new thread, in the ROTJ Stormtroopers section tomorrow (kinda late here)

 

Cheers,

John

 

cool, I need the help with my project

[Mr Laws]

Wow, I'm gone for one weekend-

 

Anyway, holy Christ Gino,

 

WTF are you on? What's with you fascination with me and Matt copying GF crap? You really have no clue about what really happened but you are perfectly comfortable spreading your weird little theories as truth. The TE2 armor came directly from pulls that Matt took from the original molds. I only corrected the molding errors that Matt and Mike made originally.

 

BTW, I remember spending two weeks picking the silicone out of the original face plate that you and Dave sent back to Matt. I never got the chance to thank you for that.

 

So do you have any real questions for me?

 

Dan

[GINO]

Wow, I'm gone for one weekend-

 

Anyway, holy Christ Gino,

 

WTF are you on? What's with you fascination with me and Matt copying GF crap? You really have no clue about what really happened but you are perfectly comfortable spreading your weird little theories as truth. The TE2 armor came directly from pulls that Matt took from the original molds. I only corrected the molding errors that Matt and Mike made originally.

 

BTW, I remember spending two weeks picking the silicone out of the original face plate that you and Dave sent back to Matt. I never got the chance to thank you for that.

 

So do you have any real questions for me?

 

Dan

 

 

Cool. Finally some answers.

So you say that you made the TE2 molds from VAC FORMED PULLS that Matt had leftover from the original molds before he sent them to me and Dave. That explains a lot. Matt's parts back then were horribly soft and pulled on a shucksty homemade vac form machine. So basicly you and GF had to make molds from the same generation of shucksty parts. Got it. EVERYONE ELSE GOT IT? carve it in stone somewhere so I don't have to deal with this armor history BS every couple of years.

 

However, what do you say about a side by side comparison of GF ab plate, shoulder connectors, and rear canister piece? You stating for the record that you did not recast those pieces and rework them?

Is it possible that Matt gave you GF parts, told you it was from the original molds and you just didn't know any better?

 

BTW, Matt must have had someone try to cast the face in between us sending it back and before you saw it. There was no silicone or residue on it at all when it was sent back. Just heavily modified and a few key details removed.

[Mr Laws]

Cool. Finally some answers.

So you say that you made the TE2 molds from VAC FORMED PULLS that Matt had leftover from the original molds before he sent them to me and Dave. That explains a lot. Matt's parts back then were horribly soft and pulled on a shucksty homemade vac form machine. So basicly you and GF had to make molds from the same generation of shucksty parts. Got it. EVERYONE ELSE GOT IT? carve it in stone somewhere so I don't have to deal with this armor history BS every couple of years.

 

However, what do you say about a side by side comparison of GF ab plate, shoulder connectors, and rear canister piece? You stating for the record that you did not recast those pieces and rework them?

Is it possible that Matt gave you GF parts, told you it was from the original molds and you just didn't know any better?

 

BTW, Matt must have had someone try to cast the face in between us sending it back and before you saw it. There was no silicone or residue on it at all when it was sent back. Just heavily modified and a few key details removed.

 

 

Yes Gino,

 

They came from the same shucksty molds that you ended up with. I saw those molds before you got them. They were crap. By the way, the pulls Matt got were crisp and true to the original molds. So what are we supposed to be carving in stone here? The fact that Tony's molds came from clean pulls? Let's leave GF out of this part. Your explanation is going in circles. I didn't copy GF's crap. It's reallt not that complicated. Why would we copy his parts when we had our own that were more accurate?

 

You seem to love the tale about removing details and modifying the face before you sent it back to Matt.

 

First of all you didn't remove anything. Matt and I did before it was sent to you and you still don't know what detail that was. Second, you changed the eye bump which was easy to fix. Lastly when I made the original face mold, it pulled in an inch on both sides leaving it too narrow at the base. As a result, your helmets don't assemble correctly. This was all fixed before Tony got it, and no it didn't change the subtle little characteristics of the mold as you put it.