Armor History Discussion

[Guest T*E]

That's correct, however the mold I have for the ANH faceplate is a mold duplicate taken back in 1999 before it was modified and sent back to Matt. The reason it was sent back to Matt was not because it was his, (because it wasn't, after it was paid for), but is part of a longer more in-depth story.

The ANH back/cap mold I have is a mold duplicate made off the original before it took the damage it now has currently.

 

LOL, shall we g down this route AGAIN? You and dave did NOT buy the mold. It was sent back after I hire a lawyer and produced an email that said ave knew the molds were mine and had to be sent back. Nice try.. your lies are getting bolder and bolder. Besides, the molds never left you since 1999 huh? Funny since gielda bought them and NOT YOU. Another lie from you.

 

guess you cant keep the lies straight since you claime to have the original molds I took in your possesion on the propden... so which is it?

 

excerpt from ginos post:

 

After reading this, I think most of your questions will be answered.

No it is not an apples to apples comparison. The cap/back and faceplate did not come from the helmet in the comparison. However they are EXACTLY as sharp as the originals they were taken from. And yes, the molds were taken from the inside of the vacformed pieces.

 

This is an outright lie, gino you never molded an original helmet. STOP CLAIMING YOU DID. Your lies are now really sad and your intentions are clearer everyday. You did not purchse the molds in 1999, dave did. You did ot purchase the ANH helmet molds, you stole them and a lawsuit was pending and the email dave sent to mike stewart was the silver bullet that had you both in deep crap. So you now admit you ruined the molds, and now you are in more deep crap.

 

Nice try.. you lose. The truth is out about your misdeeds... and by the way, when I had mr laws start the back conversion for the ANH suit, we did not have to use GF parts. We changed the width of the cod based on customer recommendations as most people are not around 170lbs. We widened the mold to make this request happen, but we did it without making the details change at all. Again for the cheap seats, no GF parts were used. Now, yes I did ask GF and he originally said yes IF we wanted to, but the decision was made that we could do what customers asked us for and so that idea was scrapped. GF violated the agreement he had with me to return the molds if he ever stopped, and instead he sol the molds to AP.

 

Now, did I charge GF for the molds? No.. why??? No molds were sent to him. bottom line. So again, another gino lie. He was sent a pull from my first ROTJ suits we did, and he and his mold guy made a set, modified the helmet sadly and altered some other things. I said no thanks and walked away from GF and the modified suits. Now, ave and gino claim I said I would not make items. Thats true. I did.. but... they recanted on our original agreement when mike sold the molds. We were to recieve each 2 suits and 2 helmets each. guess what? after a year no suits, no helmets. Their excuses, "we dont plan to make any" we have to work out how to form with the molds and it is taking time"

all excuses and they did not live to their en of the agreement. They never have. All they do is scam you, lie about it, ruin property which gino has admitted to.

 

So believe what you want to folks, in the end you will pick a side based on a liking of one person or the other, not the truth or lies that are posted. I for one have bigger fish to fry than to worry about someone whose idea of being the best is to deny making items for people, boast about how good they are and then attack anyone who ever argues or questions him. A nice legacy you have there. Hell at least I made peoples dreams come true and not shucks on them...

 

live with that

 

T*E

 

T*E

[TK-4510[501st]]

Well I guess we will never really know what happened. But we have established the lineage of TE, TE2, GF, and AP,oh and Gino. Its all basically the same molds that have been slightly modified. Judging by the original pics, no current armor is very accurate to the original. All of them have been heavily modified to even resemble an ANH set. They would be admittedly very ugly if they werent modified. So there we have it. Anything else here is just scatter brained opinions from people who will never agree.

 

Then there is the AA armor which is a recast again modified. And the Movie FX recast and again modified. The RT-MOD fan sculpt with recasted face. I think thats about as far as the ANH armor has gone right?

[GINO]

Just this once, I'm going to break my promise not to address Matt, however this just needs to be said:

 

Never claimed to have molded an original myself.

The molds I have are mold duplicates of molds taken from the inside of the original ANH helmet.

 

The helmet molds that were sent back to you, were paid for and owned by Dave, but since we had duplicates, Dave thought it the lesser of two evils to send back the originals just to get your crazy an impolite person off his back because at the time, you were interfering with his real life business. He was NOT obligated to do this as they were HIS property. He did this under strong protest from me, but I kind of understood why he did it. Now in hindsight, it shows that he was very foolish to do so.

As a precautionary measure to make sure you kept your word that you only wanted them back for posterity sake and not to make helmets, (as was per your agreement when the helmet and armor molds were sold) Dave removed several key details from the faceplate and modified several areas so that we would know if you violated our agreement. Which of course you did. Pretty smart of him I must say.

My story has always been straight. Maybe you should take a look at yours and stop fabricating history so that you can continue to take advantage of the unknowing.

 

You keep speaking of this imaginary lawsuit. Feel free to post proof of this anytime you wish.

 

Yes, Gielda bought them, but I was working with him at that time, and now they are mine.

 

 

Now that I've cleared up some of those questions, I have some for you.

Officially on the record, what did you and Dan use to create the TE2 armor molds?

I already know the answer that it was partially recast from GF/AP, modified, and supplemented with tour suit parts, but I want to hear you deny it publicly for all to see so that when it is proven here, all your credibility (for whatever that's worth) is lost.

 

All ears.

 

And BTW, it's been awhile since you blew up on a forum when people started to catch on and call you out on your BS which then in turn causes you to "leave" in some dramatic fashion. What's this, like the 5th or 6th time? Always entertaining. PLEASE Mr. Trooperexpert, don't leave us. What will we do, where will we go? Frankly my dear....

[TK8280]

Well I guess we will never really know what happened. But we have established the lineage of TE, TE2, GF, and AP,oh and Gino. Its all basically the same molds that have been slightly modified. Judging by the original pics, no current armor is very accurate to the original. All of them have been heavily modified to even resemble an ANH set. They would be admittedly very ugly if they werent modified. So there we have it. Anything else here is just scatter brained opinions from people who will never agree.

 

Then there is the AA armor which is a recast again modified. And the Movie FX recast and again modified. The RT-MOD fan sculpt with recasted face. I think thats about as far as the ANH armor has gone right?

 

You forgot the TM which is one of the best fan made ANH sets of Armor

[GINO]

Just in case there is still some confusion amongst anyone.

 

THERE HAS NEVER BEEN AN ORIGINAL SET OF ANH ARMOR THAT HAS BEEN CAST.

Only a ROTJ, and it is the origin of ALL the film armor derivitives.

 

Also, regarding the TM stuff, no set of scratch built armor could ever be as accurate as the suckiest version of recast ROTJ armor. Reason for this is that at least the ROTJ armor was made from an ANH set.

Scratch built will always be at the bottom of the barrel in terms of accuracy.

[TK-4510[501st]]

OK, I am not getting this. So TE originally recast the ROTJ armor. Then let GF borrow a pull to start making "better" armor. That didnt work out so Te continued to make armor with his slightly modified molds. Did he ever sell his molds to anyone else besides Guns? Did you (Gino), buy the entire set of molds with Dave and then just end up returning the face and back cap? I am not clear on who has the real set of first molds. Gino you say you have them. did you guys buy them from Matt? I must have missed or misunderstood something along the way. I understand the helmet mold history not the armor though.

[TK-4510[501st]]

You forgot the TM which is one of the best fan made ANH sets of Armor

I didnt include TM because his armor is not the armor we are discussing here. We are only discussing the armor that has evolved from the original ROTJ armor on the first page. If TM's armor included some part of the TE, GF, AP, Gino stuff then yeah, I woulda brought that in too. Some say that TM recast the face for his, but in my opinion and many others that is not true.

[GINO]

Okay, let me explain.

 

Matt cast the original ROTJ suit. Those molds were sold to Dave and I in 1999.

Before those molds were sold, he provided GF with very soft poor vac formed pieces from those molds, which GF then cleaned up and turned into ANH armor.

 

Once Matt did not have any armor molds, he took GF's now converted ANH molds, modified them even further, and supplemented them with tour suit parts. That is what the TE2 is. Matt sold these for awhile, then declared he was leaving the hobby (again) and sold the molds/rights to T. Guns.

T.Guns was lied to and told by Matt that the armor molds he was sold were the original molds from back in 1999.

[TK-4510[501st]]

Oh I think I get it now after doing a re-read.

Gino and Dave bought the molds from TE back in 1999. They had an agreement which I dont know what it was. They sent back the face plate (modified) and cap n back to Matt. Matt recast another set of armor to get the TE armor and got some tour suit parts to make it a bit more balanced. He then sold those molds to Guns. That right?

 

Guns has the original Cap n Back and faceplate that was modified by dave

Gino has the un modified duplicates of the recast original cap n back and faceplate

Gino has the original recast of the unmodified armor.

 

That right?

[GINO]

Some say that TM recast the face for his, but in my opinion and many others that is not true.

 

 

All of the hardcore trooper helmet experts agree that TM recast a faceplate for his helmet and tries to legitimize it by saying it was sculpted.

[TK-4510[501st]]

got it. So Matts a nut case.

[GINO]

BREAKTHROUGH!!

[TK-4510[501st]]

All of the hardcore trooper helmet experts agree that TM recast a faceplate for his helmet and tries to legitimize it by saying it was sculpted.

 

Two questions:

What was the agreement that you guys had with matt that had you sending the stuff back to him? ( no wonder the cap n back broke )

 

Be very specific about what tells you that the TM is a resculpted recast. I dont wanna belive it, but I would like you to give hard core details. (you can PM me)

[GINO]

Oh I think I get it now after doing a re-read.

Gino and Dave bought the molds from TE back in 1999. They had an agreement which I dont know what it was. They sent back the face plate (modified) and cap n back to Matt. Matt recast another set of armor to get the TE armor and got some tour suit parts to make it a bit more balanced. He then sold those molds to Guns. That right?

 

Guns has the original Cap n Back and faceplate that was modified by dave

Gino has the un modified duplicates of the recast original cap n back and faceplate

Gino has the original recast of the unmodified armor.

 

That right?

 

 

Almost, I would adjust this part slightly:

They sent back the face plate (modified) and cap n back to Matt. Matt recast another set of armor to get the TE2 armor and got some tour suit parts which are not accurate to any of the film suits. He then sold those molds to Guns.

[TK-4510[501st]]

Well, I only have one pic of the Gino V2 armor that Gino posted on the MEPD a while back. If I can find it I will post it. Obviously its as close to the originals I posted earlier. I think its amazing how much work must have been involved in getting those old hunks of crap to look decent. Its really too bad that there doesnt seem to be any ANH armor in existence anywhere.

 

This has been very educational gentleman. I want to thank you all for clearing the air on the provenance of the armor. This discussion raises more questions for me but its EXTRA EXTRA type stuff, not really important to the armor history.

 

Gino, do you have any pics of the original molds or would you mind sharing any early pics of your progress. Same goes for Matt. Do you have any pics of the recasting that you guys did back in the day? That would be fun to see.

[TK-4510[501st]]

Thanks for the welcome guys,

 

I think we can keep this discussion fair and balanced. There will undoubtedly be those who have their own opinions on this history but lets keep this focused on the facts.

 

Jax and TK 4510 are on the right path. Matt did make molds of the ROTJ armor in 96/97 with a friend of his who's no longer involved with armor. It was this friend Mike who made a deal with Gino and Dave for the molds. These molds were extremely rough, warped resin casts taken from the real ROTJ armor Matt owned. In a separate deal, Gino acquired the face plate mold from Matt's first screen used helmet that I cast in bondo and the bumpy cap/back mold that Megatron from the RPF (Curtis) made in high density silicone. Gino and his friend Dave made copies of the two molds and eventually returned the originals to Matt. Guns now has both of the original molds which are the only two that have ever touched the inside of a real helmet.

Starting around 2000 or so I started to make a new set of TK armor molds for Matt. These were to more closely resemble ANH parts and ended up being the really nice hybrid ROTJ/ANH set that Guns now uses.

 

Matt could give you a better account of his relationship with GF but I do know that GF's old molds were sold to AP.

 

Let me know if anyone has more questions.

 

Thanks,

 

Dan

 

So, if Gino had the original armor molds since 1999, where did you get the molds to modify in 2000? did matt recast the originals before Mike sold them to Gino perhaps?

[GINO]

What was the agreement that you guys had with matt that had you sending the stuff back to him?

 

 

This is where it gets deep....and long.

 

You have to understand, back in 1999, Matt made a double deal. One with GF and one with Dave and I.

Dave paid $xx,xxx for the ANH helmet mold and ROTJ armor molds, as well as the exclusive right to have the ability to make them.

Once GF and I got together and realized we both made deals with Matt, GF contacted Matt very pissed off and rightfully so. We were less pissed because we knew that the vac formed pieces given to GF were crap, and we had the original molds. Either way, we were supposed to be the only ones.

GF contacted Matt and complained. Matt, in an effort to appease GF, promised him that he would have the rights to make ANH style helmets and armor, and Dave and I would only be allowed to make ROTJ style.

When Matt came to us and dropped this on us (after ALL the molds were paid for) naturally we told him to get bent. What nerve of him to make conditions on our molds months after we bought and paid for them.

 

Since we weren't going to go along with this BS new plan of Matt's, he decides to go to the RPF and claim that the ANH helmet molds were stolen. Back then, Matt had been selling armor for awhile and no one knew who Dave or I was. Naturally, he had the support of the community and an all out mob was against us. Dave, at the time, had the license from New Line Cinema to make the full size B9 robots, and these allegations of stolen molds had reached the ears of the licensee. Even though the claims were bogus, Dave did not want any blemishes on his legitimate business. So since we had mold duplicates of the ANH helmet molds, he decided to squash the whole situation by arranging a deal with Matt to send back the original ones. As part of this agreement, Matt was to not ever make competing helmets ever in the future (which was part of the original agreement anyway), also that he was to issue a formal apology to the RPF stating that the molds were not stolen and that he had falsely accused him of that. Matt did this, and anyone around at the time can testify to this fact.

After this incident of Matt's lies about stolen molds, there was no trust in him. As a precaution, Dave removed details from the faceplate mold and modified it so that we would know if Matt went back on his word in the future. Those molds were Dave's property, so sending them back to Matt was a courtesy only done to rid himself of the meddling Matt was causing in his real life business. And if you have not seen for yourself here on this board or had the opportunity to experience it for youself, Matt is for lack of a better description, mentally unstable, and self admittedly extremely bi-polar.

I feel for him in that respect, but regardless that is no excuse to act in such ways.

 

Long response to a short question.

[Jumpin Jax]

Still ignoring the fact that Dan, who did the work and has addressed your claim as false, you're still going to claim something you have NO backing on. Matt does not even MAKE molds or castings, yet you are still running a slander campaign. "HE recast(he doesn't make castings or make molds, I know I repeat myself but that's the theme, apparently) Let me repeat, does not even MAKE molds or castings.

To those even considering this malarkey as fact, understand this: Matt is a nutcase. And that does nothing to the fact that he is correct. Gino has not cleared the air, he has spread a story.

Dan has already explained what work he did on the suit molds, that he made...MADE the TE2 molds himself. Matt HATES the GF molds, and was actually quite peeved about the way they looked. I recall GF not being happy about them either. He cast THOSE? No.

You want to believe gino instead of someone who knows what they're talking about? That's your choice. It's the wrong choice, but it's yours to make. This thread however, has been pretty much this so far anyway:

Dan and Matt say what has been done, then Gino calls them fakes and liars and poo-poo heads who are just trying to sell their.....Oh wait, isn't that a little hypocritical? Call me cynical, but that link doesn't scream "objective party" It's screaming "IIII have something to sell, so I'll, how did you put it gino? "saying the other guy's armor is crap so this one sells"

BTW, I'd like to get Guns involved in this. Something tells me that our thread might have some gaps. Toodles!

JJ

 

They sent back the face plate (modified) and cap n back to Matt. Matt recast another set of armor to get the TE2 armor and got some tour suit parts which are not accurate to any of the film suits. He then sold those molds to Guns.

[TK-4510[501st]]

Relax Gino,

 

You have the first and poorly recast resin ROTJ molds that Matt and Mike made. When I made the new molds for Matt (now TE2's molds) I corrected the molding errors and compensated for the twisting and warping that occurred during the original castings Matt and Mike did. The original resin molds are incomplete and garbage.

 

Also, the TE2 molds had nothing to do with GF my friend. I made them, you did not. And just so everyone on this board is perfectly clear, the supplemented parts from the tour suit are as follows:

 

inside left shin

 

box knee

 

entire left bicep

 

entire right forearm

 

sniper knee

 

The resin molds that Gino's has utilize two right biceps, two left forearms, an incorrect box knee, and an outside right shin to replace the inside left.

 

There's your history lesson for today.

 

So you STILL had the original armor to recast correctly in 2000? That would mean that there are to original recasts of the ROTJ armor then?

[GINO]

So, if Gino had the original armor molds since 1999, where did you get the molds to modify in 2000? did matt recast the originals before Mike sold them to Gino perhaps?

 

Absolutely not. And if it came down to it, I can prove it.

 

 

Also, the original molds we received were not in bad shape or warped as others have stated.

 

We made mold duplicates of the armor molds as well so that we could have both a definitive unaltered set of ROTJ molds, as well as a duplicate set that we could do our best to reverse engineer into ANH molds.

A project which to this day remains only about 80% finished.

[GINO]

Dan, or Matt, please go on record and say that the TE2 molds were cast directly from the same original suit as my molds. When I say directly, I mean actually touched the insides of the real suit.

Please say this so I can blow your credibility out of the water. My proof is ready and waiting.

 

What say you?

 

Since you can't say that, please go on record and tell us what you DID use.

 

Again, waiting on pins and needles as are the rest of the people here.

[TK-4510[501st]]

Well Joey, can Dan prove that the molds for the TE2 armor are in fact originals? Did they get ahold of the old armor again? Hey there's a good question....Who has the old and origianl ROTJ armor now? MAtt?!!!!! LOL!!! That would be too much.

[GINO]

Definitely not, and if they say yes, I can prove they are lying.

[TK-4510[501st]]

I would like to get Guns in on this too, as I am a friend of his and this is rather alarming.

[Jumpin Jax]

Matt was working from his ROTJ molds for years. He had 1000 opportunities to make pieces, then castings to give Dan for the updates. So he did. Where exactly is the confusion? Nothing could be simpler. Then he smashed the regular ROTJ molds. I remember that because I tried like a man possessed to talk him out of it. Didn't work. The old molds are toast. Dan spent months changing his new molds into the ANH mold version that Guns now has. That's the tale of the TE2 molds.

Dude, I fear you're accepting gino's story a little too easily. The burden of proof is on him, as he is claiming that GF molds miraculously appeared in Matt's house(they didn't, I have a pretty good memory for what went on there)so I call on him to provide evidence that Dan didn't make the molds. Which means something you can PROVE, not just say repeatedly. Can't wait.

JJ

Well Joey, can Dan prove that the molds for the TE2 armor are in fact originals? Did they get ahold of the old armor again? Hey there's a good question....Who has the ROTJ armor now? MAtt?!!!!! LOL!!!