Who is VT and who has proof?

[TooMuchGarlic]

 

News to me that VT should be TK-4510. Always heard he was a Danish chap.

 

if i were TE i would have let anyone recast my stuff. Why? Because this isnt supposed to be about money..its supposed to be about helping each other out, pushing the legion accuracy forward, and doing good for our communities wearing those suits. The more people offering quality accurate style armor the better.

It wasn't introduced to the costuming community. It was introduced to the prop community. And yes, there are sadly great differences between the two regarding what is accepted and what is not.

 

TE did something that pushed the community forward..whether we like him or not. If he didnt someone else would have eventually. im just happy we have what we do now.

And we could have had a lot more people doing it sooner if it hadn't been for blatant recasting and people not caring. So many people who had access decided NOT to share. That's what recasting helps prevent. But I'm glad you're happy.

 

I am i supporter of recasting? No. If anyone recast TM or RT-mod, THAT to me is not acceptable, as those suits were sculpted by the makers and years of work put into them from a hunk of clay to a finished product that is always getting revised. That is taking away from the artists hard work. Becuase if you sculpted a TK suit, you ARE an artist. Recasting a movie suit and making a few mods isnt an artist. If i ever got my hands on a movie suit to cast, i would do that, and guess what, i wouldnt care who recast it..the point is the community...not money.

I would like to see that. Until you do... it's just hot air. You spend the money on the original suit. You spend the money on the molding materials and risking damaging the original. You spend hours and months refining the molds, reverse engineering it back to ANH shape... and offer some kits and see the blatant recasting happen almost immediately. Yup... I think the sting will prevent you from ever doing that again.

 

You all seem to think that the community gains from recasting. As long as you get your suits cheap enough, then you are happy. Not caring at all about all the options and opportunities lost for other costumes and armor. Just because the original seller is a jerk doesn't justify recasting him. It's a matter of principle, otherwise, there is no consistency. If you come with the rebuttal that it's all recast anyway... then I can only shake my head at you... but it is clear that you have no interest in having the community prosper... as it's only going to deteriorate with more and more recasting of the same old crap over and over and over again.

 

It's sad to think that the new ANH armor will be recast in this community and will likely not be stopped or prevented. He's taking a huge risk molding and casting his original armor... just to feed the greedy masses, who'll just turn around and recast him... I just hope he'll feel it's worth it. At least in the prop community he'll be protected to a higher degree than in the costuming community. And it's really sad there is this difference between the two communities.

[R2Dan[TK]]

 

News to me that VT should be TK-4510. Always heard he was a Danish chap.

 

You're mixing up PT and VT here. Two different guys

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Carsten - who do you define as the prop making community? I ask in that let's use the DIY forum as an example. It's certainly not a costuming forum, and they engage in blatent, open, and unencumbered recasting of any kind.

 

I'll agree that there is unneveness in the 501st at least. Some forums like CTN (clonetroopers.net) are very aggressive anti-recasting, while others (particularly local garrisions) seem a free for all, while others like MEPD seem not to be targeted by such controversy.

[TooMuchGarlic]

 

News to me that VT should be TK-4510. Always heard he was a Danish chap.

You're mixing up PT and VT here. Two different guys

Ah, my mistake. Sorry. Then I have absolutely no idea who VT is.

 

Carsten - who do you define as the prop making community? I ask in that let's use the DIY forum as an example. It's certainly not a costuming forum, and they engage in blatent, open, and unencumbered recasting of any kind.

I would call the DIY an underground forum, like there are underground forums for the model kit community and other communities. Usually underground communities feel it's okay to steal from others, but have a strange ideology of not recasting each other and being strongly opposed recasting when it concerns members of that tiny community... which just shows me that they have screwed up notions of loyalty and interests. Why recast others and not each other... what's the logic in that? Just seems so misplaced. But I guess it's just me that thinks I'd rather try to protect future possibilities of new things rather than get what is already out as cheap as possible and not caring where it came from.

 

My avatar shows current and future projects I'm working on... ALL with permission... and I can tell you I have serious concerns about recasting, as why should I waste so much time and money bringing these things to the communities only to get recast. But I'm taking a leap of faith and hope for the best, that people will actually help prevent it... but I guess it may or will happen... but it's sometimes the reaction of the rest of the community that helps decide whether it's worth continuing offering stuff to the community or whether it's simply not worth the effort.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Too Much Garlic

[BlueGrot]

 

 

I would like to see that. Until you do... it's just hot air. You spend the money on the original suit. You spend the money on the molding materials and risking damaging the original. You spend hours and months refining the molds, reverse engineering it back to ANH shape... and offer some kits and see the blatant recasting happen almost immediately. Yup... I think the sting will prevent you from ever doing that again.

 

 

 

Totally agree, this is to me where people fail to differentiate. If I have the opinion that e.g. CFO (random example) has only recast someone else's work and that recasting them is perfectly legit I make a very significant ethical stance.

 

That Work is not Worth. (And that something is O.K as long as it's not illegal)

 

Their effort and time (and $$$) is suddenly made irrelevant due to an arbitrary stance in order to further my own argument that every recast should be up for grabs. TM has made a significant effort in making and offering his suit and we've yet to see recasts. My blood would boil if I were to see that, and the SAME goes for CFO, TE(burnt bridges but very important for the hobby) the upcoming Si-Man and all the others who've made an effort to offer the community something.

 

We must honour their work by not recasting it. If we say that "it's all recast anyhow" or even ACCEPT those kinds of viewpoints, we are in danger of not being offered similar opportunities of great quality replicas in the future.

[TooMuchGarlic]

We must honour their work by not recasting it. If we say that "it's all recast anyhow" or even ACCEPT those kinds of viewpoints, we are in danger of not being offered similar opportunities of great quality replicas in the future.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but this is not just hypothetical: it is FACT! We know for a fact that other cast from screen used projects that was in planning stages were pulled because of the blatant recasting happening with the trooper armor. If there had been a sense of self-control and less acceptance of recasting, we would have had cast from screen used Biker Scout helmets and Royal Guards and so many others. That's a FACT. All that was lost with the recasting of trooper armor and may never be offered - except from licensed sources and then we all know it will be idealized.

 

That's just what's so sad about this whole issue. All that is lost, so some people could get trooper armor cheaper.

[BlueGrot]

Yes, I was intending to portray it as a fact, I'm deep down into my philosophy paper for the term, so my formulations are very careful. Short answer:

 

Recast? Just say NO!

[TooMuchGarlic]

Oh... it wasn't directed at you. I was agreeing with you, but wanted to emphasize that it wasn't just hypothetical scenarios and theoretical scare tactics, but have in fact prevented people from offering what they have to the community.

[Defiance7x13[TK]]

Unless a person creates (by any means) a soul one of a kind suit for their own personal use & nothing more they do two things....

 

They open themselves up to recoup some of the cost of time, labor & materials. This is done in the name of the community, although most likely an illegal venture, its looked upon with a blind eye by many involved parties with holding at stake. But of course you better not become to successful or you bet that the villagers will be met with pitch forks & torches. The same goes for community you are giving a helping hand too if they decided to rally against you as angry mobs like to do.

 

They allow they creation they have slaved over to complete, to be reversed engineered. Sadly what is completely out of their control is to what level this will be done. Because you cant say that the next person is going to make a one of a kind creation, or come hell or high water a commercial product to force feed to the ignorant masses.

 

Creating armor is very much a business venture with all the involved risks & cost. Look how quickly blu-rays become standard across the market when for only a whisper in time, sony held the soul one. And they operate behind a curtain of bs laws and lawyers to protect them.

 

I salute anyone who has the ball to undertake creating armor. But the truth of the matter is, no amount of mud slinging, Shouting Re-Cast, or Shouting LEGITIMATE LINES for that matter is going to really change the die hard who had their suit for any number of years, or if it has served any memorable troops, of really if they just have their heart set on that suit of "fill in the blank" just because new suits from any creators is or might be hitting the market.

 

Maybe the reason other boards don't have these silly discussions is because they have come the realization that without the internet, you I and anyone who can read this would have no idea about the other suits out side of our area if they even existed & you were lucky enough or had very good connections. But more importantly the kids laid up in the hospitals, their families and those we meet on in the open public have no clue they are so thrilled to see a stormtrooper standing in front of them.

 

I guess the same could be said about the kids who ran in terror from me, however I didn't have a chance to ask if they were running because they were scared or because my armor does not have any traceable lineage.....

[Darth Voorhees[501st]]

. But more importantly the kids laid up in the hospitals, their families and those we meet on in the open public have no clue they are so thrilled to see a stormtrooper standing in front of them.

 

I guess the same could be said about the kids who ran in terror from me, however I didn't have a chance to ask if they were running because they were scared or because my armor does not have any traceable lineage.....

 

thats what im sayin...this is why i do this....not to bicker about armor linage and recasting. Im sorry i said anything in this thread

 

 

 

 

Carsten, some of the quotes you took from me sound alot worse taken out of context. If you are going to quote me, quote everything i said. Now I dunno if the comment was directed at me but I DO NOT think the community gains from recasting. i wasnt saying anything about agreeing with recasting i was just saying if "I" was the first person with a screen used suit to share, i would not have cared...thats all nothing else. If you wanna say its "hot air" so be it....you dont know me, and you dont know how much stuff i make and give away. Doesnt matter anyway, cuz ill never be that first person to own and offer a screen used suit, so its pointless to discuss.

 

I agree with you and Bluegrot on what you are saying. Respect the makers wishes. If they dont want to allow their stuff to be recast, we should respect that for the maker and the community as a whole. Unfortunately though, TK armor making has just turned into a big cluster**** at this point..which i guess is sad. Which is why i said what i did, but you couldnt tell that from your selective quoting. I respect your knowledge and opinion Carsten, i dont want to get into a silly debate with you about this. i am completely against recasting.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Darth Voorhees

[vecspeed12]

so whos VT?

[geordietrooper]

so whos VT?

 

have you read the 1st page

[TooMuchGarlic]

thats what im sayin...this is why i do this....not to bicker about armor linage and recasting. Im sorry i said anything in this thread

Never be sorry about having an opinion and let it be heard. We may not all agree, but that's better to disagree than keep quiet.

 

Carsten, some of the quotes you took from me sound alot worse taken out of context. If you are going to quote me, quote everything i said. Now I dunno if the comment was directed at me but I DO NOT think the community gains from recasting. i wasnt saying anything about agreeing with recasting i was just saying if "I" was the first person with a screen used suit to share, i would not have cared...thats all nothing else. If you wanna say its "hot air" so be it....you dont know me, and you dont know how much stuff i make and give away. Doesnt matter anyway, cuz ill never be that first person to own and offer a screen used suit, so its pointless to discuss.

I was only quoting the parts I had something to say something to. Anyone can go up and read your whole post, so no need to quote the whole thing. It really wasn't meant to single you out, as much as it was to just make somewhat general statements from what you said.

 

Hell, what you guys do, the charity and the trooping and visiting kids in hospitals. That's commendable as hell. I don't do it. I don't have the stomach for something like that. I'm not into wearing armor. I don't like the feeling. You guys don't just wear armor, you use it for good deeds. That's is your strength. But not to care where you get your armor from or the history of it and respect where it originally came from, is hurting people's appreciation of what you do. I know it's a bad analogy, but to the prop community it is similar to a bank robber donating his loot to charity. Doing something negative to do something good... well... it sorta cheapens the good. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I see it. You can't choose accurate armor and not care about the community and the rules in that community where it came from - otherwise, why not just stick with FX armor. But then again, that armor had a creator... yet he let it go and wasn't compensated from all the recasting happening. It didn't just come from nowhere - it came from someone taking the time to sculpt it and make it available. I know it's a moot point now...

 

Also, you don't have to be the first person to own an original armor to make your version of it. If you own one, you can make one. And NO ONE would have an issue with it. If you want to be an armor maker - go buy an original or buy molds someone else made from an original along with the rights to produce more. Don't just recast someone else's offering. And a recaster can't grant anyone else permission to do anything.

 

I'm just saying: there are options...

 

I agree with you and Bluegrot on what you are saying. Respect the makers wishes. If they dont want to allow their stuff to be recast, we should respect that for the maker and the community as a whole. Unfortunately though, TK armor making has just turned into a big cluster**** at this point..which i guess is sad. Which is why i said what i did, but you couldnt tell that from your selective quoting. I respect your knowledge and opinion Carsten, i dont want to get into a silly debate with you about this. i am completely against recasting.

Oh yeah... some of the armor makers sure have helped muddy the waters a great deal. And yes, I am peeved that armor cost so much - it's a lot cheaper now - but still expensive. But that's the prerogative of the seller and not the community to decide. Something costs as much as someone is willing to pay - and seeing as there are cheaper legitimate sources... there's no need to recast the expensive stuff... 'cause all that is showing the greed of the recaster and those buying: they want the good stuff but don't want to pay what it costs. The kids don't care if it's accurate or FX armor, so it's not done for them.

 

It may be $100 dollars or less worth of plastic, sure... but then again... do you think a car and all its parts really is that expensive as you are paying when you buy it? No, you pay for loads more things than just what it is made of.

 

If I can't afford something, I don't buy it and don't complain about it. There are INSANE AMOUNTS of cool stuff I want and where recasts are affordable to me to acquire, but I don't. I'd rather have the original and know that I'm helping protecting our small community in the world and making sure more new cool stuff becomes available in the future. The new ANH armor and the CFO armor really IS a thing of rarity... they are special because they take a leap of faith and they should be commended for it and protected by the community, so they'll know that their effort is worth it and are more likely to do something like that again. I will fight with teeth and claws against anyone recasting these armor makers.

 

If the recaster bought the original and made copies of it and STILL sold at his cheap prices, then it would be something to see. Until then... they are just helping undermining the community and the people who actually CAN bring something new to the hobby. You may not care about the hobby... but you care about the armor and what you use it for... and you're shooting yourself in the foot and everyone else in the back by choosing recasts.

 

The soap box is now clean.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Too Much Garlic

[TooMuchGarlic]

Man... I can't write a short post...

 

Have a great weekend guys. <_<

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Folks - a reminder that this thread is specifically about VT, not recasting in general. You're certainly free to create a recasting is evil thread elsewhere, but let's stay on target here.

[LittleOne]

well some people think that Mike is Vt but if you looki at Mikes kit and the VT kit you can see that the molding is different..ok now..you can cut the top off after molding... but still...i think the only way to find out would be to have a MTK kit and a VT kit and check them out under a magnifying glass....

 

 

that being said.... i think Mike is a super duper guy and i have had nothing but good business deals with him. He delivers what he promises! plain and simple...

 

but by the same token if Mike is VT then i find it very hypocritical from him to have done business on ebay that way even though the VT helmet does look cool ...

 

in the beginning my heart was set on a VT kit then i found this forum and read about how wonderfull the TE lineage was..i tried to get a TE2 kit but i guess Tony is too busy to do kits now...

 

After some research i ended up chosing an ATA kit because it was darn cool looking and the price was just right...

 

 

I would rebuy from ATA anytime over VT or even Mike....because of the huge difference in prices...and ATA is extremely good quality kit and job too...

[Scootch[TK]]

What will pass for adequate proof?

Edited April 8, 2011 by Scootch

[LittleOne]

a helmet from both guys....only real way to find out....i think....

[LittleOne]

what i wonder now is if Mike is a reseller of sort for TE2...i know this is going off topic to my OP...but it looks like this now..

[geordietrooper]

a helmet from both guys....only real way to find out....i think....

 

not really as i think mikes new MTK molds are being altered/refined ?

 

the only real way is for that person to fess up

[Sonnenschein]

Would you all please stop speculating and accusing? This thread is about PROOF.

 

si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses

 

 

Please consider that old latin saying for future postings

[LittleOne]

I really don't think we would get a confession from anyone at this point and i dont think someone would come forward and admit to everyone that he has been doing other type of deals somewhere else on the internet..."if this is the case"

 

i am not accusing anyone by the way....

 

another way to prove anything is if someone who got an actual VT kit would come forward and provide us with the contact inforamtion they have received from VT on the purchase...when VT shipped his helmet, he must have put his return adress on the box as any normal person would do, unless he coevered his tracks by not doing it.

 

i don't know if we should stir any more of this... since we have nothing to work with....

[Sonnenschein]

another way to prove anything is if someone who got an actual VT kit would come forward and provide us with the contact inforamtion they have received from VT on the purchase...when VT shipped his helmet, he must have put his return adress on the box as any normal person would do, unless he coevered his tracks by not doing it.

You're watching too much CSI How about finger prints or DNA taces ?

 

This thread has really become quite absurd.

 

 

[LittleOne]

You're watching too much CSI How about finger prints or DNA taces ?

 

This thread has really become quite absurd.

 

Well, to answer you honestly...i dont care who does what ....waht i care about is the quality of the kits being offered and the honesty of the reseller.

 

However some people here do care about who does what and where it is coming from because they paid big bucks for their kit at one time or another......

 

we have all read a thousands recast debate and we know the outcome of those discussions and it is always nasty in the end...

 

Should we care about VT?

 

 

I dont see him trying to sell his stuff here...

 

and if someone is playing games with people, that person will usually slip up at one time or another and get caught in his game...

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Nice discussion. The reality is there is no way to tell who is making what. It is extremely easy to alter a forming buck. Therefore to compare pull #1 with pull #2 or #3 will get you no-where. forming is extremely organic and will yield varying results in a single session.

Some believe recasting leads to a dead end where other things become unobtainable due to fear. Okay. Perhaps.

Regarding VT. It was fine for VT to engage in the work of recasting etc, but extremely rude of him to shun the recasters under his true identity. He left the recasting forum when rumors began to spread about who he was. He was extremely angry with those who knew and were suspect of letting the cat out of the bag. There are many here who know absolutely without a doubt who VT is. So if I buy out CAP and I mention that his decal files bear an uncanny resemblance to another very nice decal....... and cap smiles and asks me don't I know VT???? He's also from CA..... then names him......by name...... shows me a bunch of pics on the computer with this guy and his projects etc..... is that proof enough? It was for me. Will I share the pics? NO

 

Well, this is the crux of it. People may have proof but if they don't out it then what's the point?

 

This thread is derailing again - unless someone posts proof of the accusation, all future posts will be deleted.