Centurion Requirements : ANH Stunt Discussion

[SW1]

Yes the S.A (Screen Accurate) Award sounds a good to me

Edited March 5, 2011 by SW1

[Quebectrooper]

This program is an excellent idea Paul, but I personally think that you could have another where only screen accuracy is allowed. There are a lot more people out there nowadays that are striving for prop forgery, so maybe it might be a good idea to have another award strictly for the FISD and not specifically the 501st.

 

There are some things in the 501st EIB requirements that are not screen accurate and therefore go against what we are trying to achieve. Things like the side gaps, no holsters or tube stripes that you have mentioned are all seen on screen and there is no denying they are screen accurate, yet the 501st doesn't allow it.

 

I realise that this forum ultimately is a 501st board and the Centurian program is aimed at taking your costume to another level which is great, but for the guys who want to go beyond this I think it might be a good idea to have another award for them to aim for.

 

Just a thought

 

Right Paul but all those guys left to create another forum where they'll be only 6 guys this year talking about how thick the metal brackets holding the suits were in 1976 !

 

Here you can have scotch tape holding your FX armor and we'll still welcome you and have fun!

[Madmartigan]

re: "Chest and back should be connected with a white fabric strap."

 

Might want to add "at the shoulders". With so many of the old suits connecting the chest and back on the sides with black elastic, I was thrown for a second:

 

"Wait a second! There's no connection on the sides - black, white, fabric, elastic, or otherwise!"

*pause*

"Oh.....!"

[firebladejedi[TK]]

My armour was officially approved tonight by Mark Hamill

 

---------------

Edited June 24, 2021 by gmrhodes13
link not working, removed gmrhodes13 2021

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

I think that the Bicep and shoulder bell overlap concept is great for people with long slender arms

 

but what about===

 

if you have short arms?

 

if you look at this photo in the back row you can see

 

a trooper with short biceps which requires an overlap.

 

---------------

 

look in the back row, we have a short bicep trooper, and in the front row we have a

 

longer arm at the bicep.

 

the bicep overlap will entirely depend upon the length of the upper arm.

 

there is not really much a trooper can do to change this unless they

 

use a non screen accurate way of shortening the bicep armor, which I think

 

would take away from the look, more than it adds.

Edited June 24, 2021 by gmrhodes13
link not working, removed gmrhodes13 2021

[Madmartigan]

On 3/6/2011 at 8:39 AM, TK Bondservnt 2392 said:

I think that the Bicep and shoulder bell overlap concept is great for people with long slender arms

 

but what about===

 

if you have short arms?

 

if you look at this photo in the back row you can see

 

a trooper with short biceps which requires an overlap.

 

----------------

 

look in the back row, we have a short bicep trooper, and in the front row we have a

 

longer arm at the bicep.

 

the bicep overlap will entirely depend upon the length of the upper arm.

 

there is not really much a trooper can do to change this unless they

 

use a non screen accurate way of shortening the bicep armor, which I think

 

would take away from the look, more than it adds.

 

Agreed. I am thinking of shortening the strap from my biceps and making more overlap with the shoulder to reduce the pinch at the elbow because my humerus is no where near as long as that guy in the front row! =)

[FIVE[501st]]

Okay... here are my notes (finally).

I am only commenting on the "red" items.

 

00. « no notes...

 

01. « I agree on the elimination of the MRCE and ANHv2 buckets. I don't believe it needed to list all buckets that are acceptable. Neck trim should be closer to screen used than not, but I don't think it should be an issue. No need to specify which bumps are painted. Hand painted tears and traps or decals that simulate hand painting are okay. Again, it's the "look" that is being met here, not the technique.

 

02. « no notes...

 

03. « Yes to all of these, including stating they need to be connected with the white elastic band.

 

04. « I agree.

 

05. « no notes...

 

06. « I'd be happy either way with this. I don't believe having them should prevent Centurion status... but...

 

07. « I agree.

 

08. « I agree.

 

09. « I would make this read, "Chest and back should be connected with a white fabric or preferably elastic strap at the shoulders."

 

10. « Change "little" to "little-to-none" and then leave "or minimal." Redundant, but as it reads now it should overlap a little.

 

11. « no notes...

 

12. « I agree with Paul here that this status should allow a minimal gap in the sides. Because something is required for EIB doesn't mean it has to be required for Centurion — much like the pack on the MEPD side. This is one thing though that I believe should be changed ON the EIB... which is a whole other story. To me, getting into that story a bit, having a small black line of a "visible" seam is so much better than having a big piece of white smooth plastic slapped in to cover it. I agree with the rest of this one — if the 'one visible snap' means the male snap on the top right corner of the ab-plate. The word "bottom" is confusing there.

 

13. « I agree.

 

14. « Yes, I believe snaps should be visible. No, I don't think decals work. Decals work for the bucket because it's a thing (ink on paper) representing a similar thing (paint). If someone wants to put "fake" snaps then that's fine. But they should be three-dimensional "things". Otherwise the slippery slope says decals for the ab plate buttons are okay... on a flat plate.

 

15. « I agree. And yes, mention the sides of the belt need to be angled.

 

16. « no notes...

 

17. « Are there no visible rivets on the ammo belt in ANH? (I'm still learning.) If that's true, then yes... that should be the case I think. Again, what is the look. As for the trimming of the ammo belt, I think yes. If there is a standard.

 

18. « Question; no visible rivets on the trapezoid knee plate? Again... is this the case? If so, then yes.

 

19. « I agree with the seam. I don't think they need to be scuffed. And I think TKBoots are fine.

 

20. « no notes...

 

21. « I agree.

 

22. « no notes...

 

 

Hope this helps!

Great job guys!

[troopermaster]

Right Paul but all those guys left to create another forum where they'll be only 6 guys this year talking about how thick the metal brackets holding the suits were in 1976 !

 

Here you can have scotch tape holding your FX armor and we'll still welcome you and have fun!

 

I am talking about an FISD award for a screen accurate suit.

 

I think you are missing the point here. I was thinking of an award for people to aim for by building their armour 100% as the screen used armour. I realise this is not for the majority of people on here so they can be happy with their EIB if they choose to aim for it.

 

Maybe I am wasting my time again......

[ObiHahn[TK]]

I'd go for an all out accuracy award! With side gaps, jodhpurs and the whole shebang...

But the Centurion is also a nice idea - allowing TKBoots (scuffed and weathered) should be a-okay for example.

 

The proposed centurion requirements seem good to me.

Here's a few thoughts:

# Question: should we specify which bumps are painted? - No, not really. I think they were kinda all over the place.

# Question: Should we say anything about the type of neck trim? - Yeah, should at least be S-trim

# Question: Should we say that tears/traps must be hand painted, or use decals that emulate hand painting? - Do encourage hand painting. Still beats the look of hand-painted style decals any time, if you ask me.

 

# Question: should we state that straps must be connected to the white under strap with an elastic band. - Sure, should be a must.

 

# There should be little or no overlap of the bicep armor. - No overlap and massive overlap were seen in ANH, so both should be accepted.

 

# Should we say no return edge on the insides of the fronts? - Mandatory, yes.

 

# The ab plate and kidney plate should match together at the sides with no gap, just a single visible seam line. - Gaps were seen in ANH, allow minimal gaps I say.

 

# Question: should we specify one snap must be visible on the bottom tab of the ab plate. - I don't quite get that one...what snap? There's 2 in the back of the butt plate. But either a brad or a split rivet in the front. None of them painted.

 

# Question: Should we specify snaps must be visible on the tail end of the butt plate tab? If so, would a decal be OK to look like one? - Why decals? No, do not allow substitutes.

 

# Should we mention that the sides of the belt should be angled?. - Definitely, should be mandatory even for EIB.

 

# Question: Should we make it a reqirement that no visible rivets may be seen on the ammo belt?

# Question: Should we indicate exaclty how the ammo belt corners must be trimmed? - Ammo belt must not be riveted but affixed by brads/split rivets, an the corners must be rounded.

 

# Question: Should we indicate that no visible rivets are to be used? - Yep, no rivets or brads or whatever - just glue.

 

# Question: shoud we specify that boots should be scuffed. - Yeah, clean boots don't really scream ANH, do they?

[Daetrin[Admin]]

First of all - this is fantastic! I'm really pleased to see that there is consensus on many issues.

 

@Bluey/Obihahn - thanks for the detailed responses - this is exactly what I was hoping to see Cleaning up much of the language should be straight forward.

 

Here are some issues that seem to come up several times.

 

@Side gaps: The question would be if we allow for a gap, how big is OK before you lose the canonical look of an ANH TK. And, what percentage do we actually see on screen, for how long?

 

@Crotch snaps: I'm thinking we may break this out when voting time comes as it seems to really divide people.

 

@Overlap of biceps: another one that will be broken out for vote or removed entirely.

 

@Boots: Painted black boots seems to be a minority, but most seem good with scuffs, so we'll change that to scuffs for now and see how it goes. If it still causes angst, we'll separate it out come voting time.

 

@Reminder on the intent of the program and how these requirements should be viewed:

 

Remember the goal is not 100% screen accuracy or prop replication, but to have a higher bar than EI. The reason is that while we understand that some want prop replication, there are 1800 Legion members who aren't even at EI yet, so we want to ensure that this isn't so far out that only a few people get it.

 

* ANH in particular is rife with errors, flubs, and inconsistancies that are non-intentional in nature. For lone instance a trooper without tube stripes or a thermal detonator are considered unintentional.

* 501st requirements aren't intented to capture every posssible variat of screen seen, just the canonical, representative versions.

* As Paul (TrooperMaster) noted, this is a 501st site and we still have to abide by 501st costuming requirements.

 

Paul (TrooperMaster) suggested perhaps a different award for prop replication, and I think that is a more sensible alternative to trying to make Centurion that role as we could then allow it to vary from 501st requirements, because at that point you are trying to capture a specific screen seen trooper, not a canonical representation of one.

 

Lastly...Pat - mind your manners please. Paul made some very excellent and reasonable suggestions here. Any negative comments on LSD or it's members will be deleted and repeat violations will warrant a suspension.

[Locitus[Admin]]

I like the idea of having an award for pure screen accuracy and another award being the centurion. Because with centurion you can still build a kit for trooping and have a really solid strapping for example; while still looking awesome from the outside. Some of the SA ways of doing it look a little fragile to stand trooping. And while I still like the new 100% SA kits im not sure its strong enough for trooping.

 

But please, do make an award for screen accuracy.

[Quebectrooper]

Lastly...Pat - mind your manners please. Paul made some very excellent and reasonable suggestions here. Any negative comments on LSD or it's members will be deleted and repeat violations will warrant a suspension.

 

Paul and Paul i got that and your idea is what's missing in this forum. I was just trying to do some humor about the situation again like i do in every post since last year not just about LSD.

 

I'll mind my own manner ''for sure'' !!!!!!!!!!

Edited March 6, 2011 by Quebectrooper

[Dmian]

Paul's idea is nice, but I think we should concentrate on Centurion for now. We can talk about a future award later.

I think most people has an idea what the program means, focus on that and make your recommendations.

 

I think more attentions should be paid to blasters too. The different combinations, re Parts of Star Wars.

I'm working on that right now, as I think Troopers should sport a correct blaster for Centurion. Blasters have been largely negleted, with most people concentrating only on the armor.

[Rob .T .[TK]]

A.N.H.or E.S.B. screen accuracy is a good idea for a different award , but to get membership would be impossible without T.M. super thin armour ... surelly no other armour maker produces screen accurate armour , its all derrived from R.O.T.J. ,modified over the years.

And Only JoeR is selling accurate R.O.T.J. these days.

 

Just a thought as most American members wear TE derrived suits or FX.

 

Oh and I definitely agree with Dmian about Blasters... its an absurdity even for the lower award to allow non accurate looking blasters, for Centurion a good looking blaster must be a requirement.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Rob .T .

[ObiHahn[TK]]

Agreed, a good blaster is a must! Accurate t-track and Hensgtlers and cylinders, or lack thereof, should follow strict screen references.

[SuperTrooper]

I have some in a uk size 13 which would be us size 14...

 

Sorry I asked if you know of a place to buy them. Have a link to a website that ships international?

[FIVE[501st]]

Glad this is coming together!

 

First off, Paul (Troopermaster, not Daetrin) while I don't know that I personally will ever own a full on "prop-replication" suit I can not swear an oath that I will not. Regardless of that, however, I do not think you are wasting your time and believe an award for such a thing could be, possibly "should" be, and most likely will be part of the FISD at some point in the not-so-distant future. This is, of course, coming from me as a simple member here and has no bearing on any knowledge I may be presumed to possess; for I do not indeed possess such presumed knowledge... that I can swear on.

 

Secondly, I believe "side gaps" are easy enough to deal with. I would leave it on a case-by-case basis with the wording as of such which states they should be minimal not allowing any which are larger than seen on screen. It is true this could become continuos in certain requests for Centurion status; posting of relevant screen references for those who believe they are within the on-screen limits would simply be a requirement and the burdon of proof would fall onto the submitter if a question arose.

 

Glad to hear about the boots... and I find scuffing to be completely worthy!

 

Thank you too Paul (Daetrin, not Troopermaster) for the reminder on the intent of the program!

 

Looking forward to the ESB requirements and hoping my build, as it is, will meet those as well as it's meeting these... haha

[Daetrin[Admin]]

OK, updates made. Please review and do let me know if I mssed anything. I'll leave this up for the rest of the week before moving final break-outs to the detachment only area.

[ObiHahn[TK]]

I think the updates are good, and the open questions are up for vote? Like biceps overlap and such?

[Lichtbringer]

My armour was officially approved tonight by Mark Hamill

 

 

 

Congratulations.

 

But that pic rememberd me immediatly what bothers me most, when seeing Stormies (or others). It´s not any biceps overlap or helmet versions.

 

It´s the plastic guns, more specifically: their lack of weight. It immediatly looks completly wrong how a person moves with a to light equipment. You move in a specific way as you have to handle some weight.

 

I´ve read the "try to troop with xyz all day" - but that´s exactly what real soldiers do, too. If you can´t hold it - get stronger.

 

I´m not suggesting that everyone should use a real Sterling, no way - but it might be not the badest idea to request some weight in the guns. Like "plastic or whatever for starters is fine, EIB needs half the weight of a full up-greeblied Sterling, and Centurion must have the full weight".

 

It´s the same as with middleage reenactment - you can/do notice the guys with light aluminium chainmail and weapons immediatly due to their different "acting".

 

Just my 2 cents. From a unbiased outside, not trooping, point.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

heck yeah brother!

 

that's exactly why I make heavy plastic blasters!

 

and I have all the original metal parts for the blaster. the counter, the scope.

 

the apex kit. all I need now is the tube and the rebuild.

 

almost there.

 

maybe a TM original strap and I'll be good to go.

 

I need to lose about 20lbs... maybe that'll help!

 

carry the blaster that has weight! yeah!

Edited March 7, 2011 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[Locitus[Admin]]

Maybe atleast a kilo/2 pounds is a good start for a realistic feeling to the blaster?

Edited March 7, 2011 by Locitus

[ObiHahn[TK]]

I dunno... do you guys really think that weight should be mandatory? I think the look is more important. Weight can be simulated by posture and attitude.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love me a nice metal E-11, but that might just be setting the bar too high. There are a lot of good looking plastic pipe blaster builds out there that should all be eligible for Centurion.

 

Here's me aiming my metal E-11 with a weight of roundabout 1.5 kilos, where I'm sure some might think it would be a lot lighter by the way I'm holding it:

[Lichtbringer]

I dunno... do you guys really think that weight should be mandatory? I think the look is more important. Weight can be simulated by posture and attitude.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love me a nice metal E-11, but that might just be setting the bar too high. There are a lot of good looking plastic pipe blaster builds out there that should all be eligible for Centurion.

 

Here's me aiming my metal E-11 with a weight of roundabout 1.5 kilos, where I'm sure some might think it would be a lot lighter by the way I'm holding it:

 

 

I´m no pro if it comes to the finer details from suits, but most people out there are much less. They don´t recognize differencies between details on your armor that would downright jump in your eyes. But people moving "wrong" is visible, you maybe can´t point on it, but it´s there and it makes the whole situation "unreal".

 

You can build a nice blaster from plastic and paint it so it looks like metal, you even might be able to look appropriate on a pic, due to posture and attitude - but not when moving. A nearly 2,5Kg real Sterling has a lot of its weight in the fronthalf, it´s not as easy to wield as a 1 Kg blaster, even not for a strong guy. A question of inertia. Without weight it looks like a adult wielding a toy.

 

I´m not talking against pipe blasters (damn fine out there), just add weight to them, it adds to their realism. And getting better is the goal for beeing centurion, at least thats what i understand when reading here. I would never suggest such to the average trooper who does some costuming to have some party on a event - i just thought the centurion thing aims for higher levels.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Lichtbringer

[firebladejedi[TK]]

I'm just big and strong