Question about assembling...

[Benkenove]

Hi guys,

 

I have a question about how to assemble the armor correctly (like the original one).

 

I have an AP armor and I'd love to make it like the screen used ones... but got some doubts..

 

The question is easy... Were all the arms and leg pieces assembled like the front of the legs ?.. with an additional strip on the top... or the biceps and forearms were overlapped ???

 

The same question goes for the back closing parts... (for example, legs and shins)... overlapped there ? or like the front... both sides flushed with a plastic strip over both (glued in 1 of those and with velcro in the other ?? or how ) ?...

 

And finally, another question related to this as well... Could you tell me the correct width of those strips ?? (width of the thigh strip, calf/shin, forearms, biceps...) ? I know they are not the width...

 

No more, thank you so much, and I hope someone can help me.

 

Ben.

[troopermaster]

Hi Ben,

 

The arms and legs had joining strips both front and back. The two parts of each peice was butted together and the joining strip was glued on top holding them together...no overlapping! The actual sizes of the strips is anyones guess but I use 15mm for the arms and 20mm for the legs, with the exception of 25mm for the back of the shins.

 

As for the strapping, they used elastic that was riveted in place and some areas had webbing and snaps. Below is a pic of my armour just to give you an idea. Is it just like the originals?.....I think it's close but no one knows for sure and we have seen no hard evidence as yet of the originals.

 

 

Hope that helps!

 

-Paul.

[Benkenove]

Thank you so much for your answer.. I really appreciate it...

 

Got a few more questions.. (after reading your answer, and also after seeing your pics).

 

1.- so, would be the same width the front of the thigh armor than the fron of the shin armor ??? or should the fron shin be a little smaller?

 

2.- I see your arms edges are straight.. with the strip over it... but, would be possible to do this same assembling method with an AP armor ?? or would be a bad idea ?? (I ask this cause the AP armor has strip-curved shape on it... was the original this way ? and should I simply put the strip over it or what ? ).

 

3.- Why sooooo many snaps on the shoulder straps ? :|

 

4.- I see there are 2 visible snaps in the cod area... is this ok ? or should they go glued from the inside ? (again 2 instead of one , strange).

 

5.- another stupid question... on the side joints ... I see 3 pairs of rivets in one side, but in the other isde I only see 1 snap (which is visible from the outside), but no more in that side of the armor ... is this corrrect ??? wouldnt be better to have another one, in the area just under the belt ?

 

6.- what kind of snaps did you use for the belt-armor connection... ? they seems to be different from the standard snaps ??

 

7.- I think last, but not least... something that has been worried me a lot for a long time... those tiny holes that appears in the original armors in some edges (like back-butt pieces. ab piece ans chest...), seems to be made to put tiny rivets ?? is this true ?? at least is what I see in your AMAZING pictures... what did you use there ??? standard rivets + elastic ? or nylon straps ? and what is that golde bars out there ???

 

Wooohh... I think I have asked tooooo much, I guess more than one will desire to kick my butt, but I hope you can forgive me for alll these questions :D:D

 

Thank you sooo much !

 

Ben.

[troopermaster]

Okay let's see.....

 

1. Front of thigh and shin strips the same width,20mm as well as the back of the thigh. The back of the shin is 25mm. This is purely what I do and no means 100% correct. (95% )

 

2. The AP is an ROTJ suit with ANH features and I think if you chopped the joining overlap strips off they would be too short/narrow to fit. I would just simply put the joining strip over the top once they are butted up together.

 

3. Yes way too many snaps but the first few I put in wasn't right (suit didn't feel right) so I put in a couple more and everything was fine.

 

4. The original suit's had two snaps under the butt plate. Check out Han in the detention block control centre.

 

5. The real suit's were 'hinged' from one side and the actors had to slip into them. The opening side has one strap that is riveted in place and a snap on the kidney plate. There could very well be another strap hidden behind the belt but it is not really needed. Once the suit is closed with the side strap, the belt is closed and it feels fine.

 

6. The snaps for the belt are different and the same shape as the original ones. I did plan to use them for all other parts but they are very small compared to the other ones I use. I suppoes it depends on how accurate you want your suit?

 

7. The tiny holes are rivets, yes. They are the smallest I could find and had to use brass flat bar to attach them to as I couldn't for the life of me find washers small enough. No worries though, the bar actually hold the elastic better and is much harder to come off. Washers would have been nice though.

 

Next question

[TK-4935]

hey Paul, hows things? brass flat bar. you know all this time i wondered what they were on your armour. where can you get it and more importantly what is it?

[troopermaster]

Alright Simon

 

I got the brass bar from my local hobby shop. I really wanted small washers but couldn't find any so that was the next best thing. The place used to be called hobbicraft but it has changed name now and can't remember what it is called now. Are you looking to buy some?

[troopermaster]

I just did a search and found the old website. It links to the new one and I have found the part.

 

Brass strip

[TK-4935]

you're a star. thanks mate

[Benkenove]

hi Paul,

 

I have no words to thank you... I know all those question can sounds stupid , but I really appreciate your help (and the time you spent answering me ).

 

More questions do you want ?? .. ok, let's go

 

1.- small rivets... can these works:

They are from Tandys, and its size is 1/4" cap, 1/4" post, 1/4" base... are small enough ? or should be even smaller ???

 

2.- About the shin armor and strips.. is there any way you could show me some pics of the back of the shin ??? (same with back of thigh)... I'm trying to think how .. but I cannot imagine 100%... I'd really appreciate if you could show me some pics of it... (If it's not a problem). (would be amazing to see it closed, but also opened, to see how it really works there... I can imagine that the strip on the back is glued to 1 of the sides, and with the half of the strip that is not glued, with velcro attaching the other side ??? or how ?? cant imagine .. .

 

3.- about the snaps for the belt... yes, I knew they were different... do you know where I could find those ?? (yes, I'm like you, trying to make it like the original one ).

 

4.- Last for today What colors do you recomend me to paint all the details for an ESB armor adn helmet ?? (the grey, the blue, etc etc), what brand and # ??? humbrols ???

 

Once again, thank you sooo much, I'm dying to start this project .

 

Ben.

[troopermaster]

1. I have used those kind of studs in the past and I do not recommend them. They need to be hammered together and can split the plastic as I found out I use pop rivets made by Draper but any brand should do.

 

2.

 

You can see the different sizes in these pics. The strip on the shins at the backs are only glued to the outer parts and just close the gap at the back. Usually they have no black showing but if they do you can add a black elastic strap so it isn't visable. I prefer not to use velcro. I have recently noticed some kind of clips/hooks/fasteners on the originals to keep them closed. I'll get a pic sorted out later.

 

3. Any haberdashery should have the snaps, or check out ebay

 

4. ESB helmets had decals. The mouth and vocoder look stain black and I think the ear caps the same as ANH. I have several tins of grey Humbrol that I can check with the decals I have from trooperdecals.com for a decent match.

 

-Paul.

[JTKenobi[TK]]

Okay let's see.....

 

2. The AP is an ROTJ suit with ANH features and I think if you chopped the joining overlap strips off they would be too short/narrow to fit. I would just simply put the joining strip over the top once they are butted up together.

 

Next question

 

Hi Paul.I am John. Can you clarify what you mean by your statement above? In the AP directions, it suggests cutting down 1/2 the width of the seams on either side and then glue the (15mm?) strip over the seams which are butted together. Any concerns about doing this with the AP kit as far as you know?

 

Also, I plan on using this 'seamless' method for the front of the forearms, biceps, thighs and calves with velcro at the back. Then if I decide later to mod the backs of these parts to 'seamless' style, will this be possible or will it be too hard to do this after the fact?

 

Thanks,

John

[Laspector[TK]]

What are you guys talking about with this "brass bar" deal? What is it and where does it go? I'm clueless.

[troopermaster]

Hi John,

 

I think the AP suit should have the arm and leg parts joined together with strips just like ANH/ESB armour. The AP is an ROTJ suit so it has the joining strips already moulded into the armour but this is not a problem. I use 15mm strips for the arms so I would cut the moulded strips to 8mm on either side. I'd do the same for the legs, but using 20mm strips and cutting them at 11mm.

 

That is just what I would do to make the AP more ANH accurate, assembly wise.

 

-Paul

[JTKenobi[TK]]

Hi John,

 

I think the AP suit should have the arm and leg parts joined together with strips just like ANH/ESB armour. The AP is an ROTJ suit so it has the joining strips already moulded into the armour but this is not a problem. I use 15mm strips for the arms so I would cut the moulded strips to 8mm on either side. I'd do the same for the legs, but using 20mm strips and cutting them at 11mm.

 

That is just what I would do to make the AP more ANH accurate, assembly wise.

 

-Paul

 

Paul (and anyone else ),

I was told yesterday by someone at our armor party that if you assemble the calves this way, there is a good chance that the plastic will break over time due to the stress of being pulled apart over and over when putting them on. Has anyone heard of this and is it true??

 

Thanks,

John

[troopermaster]

Paul (and anyone else ),

I was told yesterday by someone at our armor party that if you assemble the calves this way, there is a good chance that the plastic will break over time due to the stress of being pulled apart over and over when putting them on. Has anyone heard of this and is it true??

 

Thanks,

John

 

Mine have no signs of cracking, but if you are worried, simply glue an extra strip on the inside to reinforce it even more

 

On my shins, I just slip my foot through them without my boots on and they don't open up too much so not much pressure is put on the strips. I can see how it could crack though if you were to open up them up too wide.

[JTKenobi[TK]]

Can someone with an AP kit that has done their seams like this post some photos of your work? Since the seams are already molded into the armor, I'd like to see how far people cut back the edge and if you can see the original seam at all. Close-ups would be awesome! I'd also like to see how wide you cut your strips of ABS. I alreay cut mine per Troopermaster's suggestions so I hope that works for the AP!!!!

 

Patiently crosses fingers and waits for pics

[JTKenobi[TK]]

Can someone with an AP kit that has done their seams like this post some photos of your work? Since the seams are already molded into the armor, I'd like to see how far people cut back the edge and if you can see the original seam at all. Close-ups would be awesome! I'd also like to see how wide you cut your strips of ABS. I alreay cut mine per Troopermaster's suggestions so I hope that works for the AP!!!!

 

Patiently crosses fingers and waits for pics

 

After another guy with an AP-kit on that forum ran into troubles trying to do the 'extra ABS strip' method on his thighs I am very nervous about doing this method although I am pretty much commited to start gluing on Saturday. Any last minute advice/photos/directions to tutorials etc. on this topic would be very appreciated.

 

thanks,

john

[kiyotei[TK]]

I know you are referring to me. In the end once I finally got the thigh glued using an abs welder, it held. It actually did not turn out bad now that its done but I had lost my nerve and desire to take on any more butt seams. Here is what I recommend but FYI, I did not actually trim the seam as I recommend below, I thought of this after the fact. Here are the steps I would recommend:

1. Overlap the seams and tape them in place.

2. Take tracing paper and place it over the thigh.

3. Try to trace the seams curve on the paper. You can use this as a template to cut the plastic strip. As you noted the "seam" is not a straight line. Following the curve. This is not as easy as it sounds because the seam is not well defined in a few sections making tracing on normal paper very hard to do. Get thin thin tracing paper.

4. Keeping the overlap seam in place, trim down the center line of the seam. Most likely, unless you use a dremel to cut, you will or should cut thru the top layer and then recut to get the second layer. By cutting the seam when its overlapped means it should give you a nice matching butt seam. I did not do this. I trimmed my thigh one side at a time not realizing how hard it would with the multi dimensions of the curved piece to get a proper butting.

5. Now untape the trimmed overlap and butt the two edges and tape from the front outside edge.

6. Since the outside seam is curved and hard to glue a strip on you should glue a strip to the inside seam first. Its flat. This will will be easy to glue. I found it hard to keep the middle section pressed together while waiting for the glue to set. Tape didn't do the trick because of the curves in the plastic pulling the seam apart. Yes I also used clamps but I didn't have any clamps big enough to reach the middle section of the seam.

7. Once the inside seam is dry, then glue the outside seam. You may want to glue just one end of it, let it set, then slowly working your way down the seam a few inches at a time.

8. Use the abs welder glues, not epoxy. I found the epoxy just wouldn't get a good hold because of the curved seam.

I hope this helps. I recommend having a helper for glueing. Let me know how it works. I may go back at some point and pull the epoxy seams apart and do the butt seam, but I'll save that for later.

[kiyotei[TK]]

Paul,

I like how close your shoulder bells hang. I cannot get the AP should bells to come that close to the body armor. I use straps to hold them to the shoulder but they just don't seem big enough, I'm guessing its an AP thing. What kind of armor is yours?

[troopermaster]

My armour is TM and I doubt you would be able to get your AP bells to hang like mine unless you take a heat gun and widen them. Also, hanging your biceps from your shoulder bells is a big NO NO if you want the bells to like right.

[Guest Bezerkus]

My armour is TM and I doubt you would be able to get your AP bells to hang like mine unless you take a heat gun and widen them. Also, hanging your biceps from your shoulder bells is a big NO NO if you want the bells to like right.

 

Speaking of hanging from the bells, would you ever connect the forarms to biceps in any way? I ask because in the Making of Star wars book, it says when talking about Tunisia... "The upper and lower parts of the arms were held together with black elastic" I did notice that these two parts seem very close together with the TD's.

[troopermaster]

Yes, I use a strip of elastic between the bicep and forearm.

[kiyotei[TK]]

Hi Paul,

miscommunication there, the shoulder bells hang from the shoulder straps, not the biceps. I have the biceps attached to the shoulder bell. I got rid of the strap that some guys use which goes all the way around the bicep to hold it to the shoulder bell. I used Curtis's method of securing the bicep-shoulder bell assembly. It looks good, works fine, and you can't see any black strapping. I was guessing you had TM. Is your bucket TM as well? I looks really wide in the pics but then again, I've never seen a TM bucket in person. FYI your armor looks awesome.

Jim

[HPDblues[TK]]

TM rules!

 

T

[JTKenobi[TK]]

Hi Jim-

Thank you for sharing your idea. Wow, that sounds tough though. That's the first I have heard of anyone using curved strips. I am glad you got your thigh issues worked out.

 

Paul - can you perhaps chime in again on the topic? ever heard of curved strips?