Midnight Trooper Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 Nah, drop it. Move along. move along. New question; How many stormtrooper helmets were made for ANH including heros? Quote
Dargas[501st] Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 4 me thinks! the hero style the sandy style the standard style and the stunt I?m answering from what I can recall sitting here in my job! Quote
Star Wars Helmets Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 Thanks to the Daetrin for reopening this thread I?d like to add my views to this thread since I feel I may have some relevant views on this subject. As a point to note, my views are, though clearly influenced by numerous discussion in the past with Andrew Ainsworth, are also based on numerous other relevant experiences ? not least having handled a large number of original helmets over the past few years. Firstly I would be wary of placing too greater emphasis on bumps/texture patterns on the original ANH/ESB helmets. Certainly there ARE some bumps which exist on more than one helmet (and possibly most or all helmets), but I don?t believe they are as profuse or observable as some might suggest. As an indication, here?s a hi res pic of a couple of helmets, side by side in the same light and though there are some common markings (like on the trapezoid) ? they?re not particularly evident. I fact if anything its more apparent the bumps on one helmets that isn?t on the other. On the second diagram I?ve lined up two front trapezoids from two different helmets, again in my opinion markings on one helmet AREN?T on another. As a background to this its worth understanding the history of the original Stunt helmet manufacture process, back in 1976. As everyone knows they?re made of HDPE, which is actually not what you would consider as the ?ideal? choice for a helmet since its not considered the most forgiving material. However it is very flexible and unlike the ABS available at the time allowed a greater degree of undercut (as well as adhering to the troublesome male-female-male curves on the rear swoop). So the Stunt helmets were produced by AA, and according to his notes were not paid for in advance (nor an order received), hence he was in a position where he would not be paid for anything that wasn?t used. Because of this he used the available material he had in stock (the HDPE used for making fish ponds and other garden ornaments), and also probably the same vac former that was used to create the garden ornaments. In summary therefore, the backdrop to this reveals a working process in 1976 that was not designed to yield high-quality helmets, and this extended to the moulds, the vac former, the material used, and the pace of production. So to answer the questions, many of the bumps we see on HDPE helmets are irregular blemishes caused by the HDPE contorting as its heated, applied to the mould and then cooled and removed. My understanding is that the LESS surface definition present, the GREATER the contortions ? hence in essence why the back/cap is more irregular than the face. But there clearly are some, REGULAR bumps that occur on more than one helmet, and these are caused by: 1) Contamination on the moulds. Evidence ? AA has said that they used the vac former which was previously used to create the fish ponds, made from vac forming HDPE over pieces of rock (resulting in bits flaking off) 2) Breakdown of the moulds. I do not believe the moulds were not made of a stable material like plaster or metal but instead some form of modelling material. Essentially the more the moulds were stressed and heated (through more frequent use), the more they would breakdown causing tiny ?eruptions? in the material ? showing up as bumps on the material vac formed over the top 3) Damage - This was a rush job. Helmets had to me made very quickly, often working through the night. The more the moulds were stressed and heated up the less easy it was to get the results required and the more likely they would have to cut the forms from the moulds. IMO this is a likely source of the damage to the back section of the helmet and the undercut 4) Bumps on the mould. Basically since these were background helmets I don?t believe a lot of attention was paid to them, and not surprisingly the back of them!. Though I?ve not seen the moulds (or to use the proper term ?tools?), I imagine they are cobbled together and may well include a number of ?foreign? objects that help form their structure. I?m hoping that as part of the LFL v SDS case we might finally see these moulds and will therefore gain a better understanding of their composition and how it affected the manufacture of the helmets. Ultimately I don?t suppose anyone in 1976 could ever imagine that there would be a group of guys over 30 years later debating the intricate detail of these ?knocked together? plastic helmets :lol . I therefore bet that many of the bazaar processed they went through to make them (and many other items used in the films) are probably going to take us all by surprise Hope this helps Cheers Jez www.StarWarsHelmets.com Quote
TK8280 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 Thanks Jez, it definately helped me...thank you for sharing this information with us and the cool pictures! Quote
TK8280 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 Nah, drop it. Move along. move along. New question; How many stormtrooper helmets were made for ANH including heros? do you mean the total helmets made for each shoot of the film, or styles of helmets made for ANH? Quote
Star Wars Helmets Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 Thanks guys. 50 Stunt Helmets were made for ANH, and 6 Hero's Cheers Jez Quote
TK8280 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 Thanks guys. 50 Stunt Helmets were made for ANH, and 6 Hero's Cheers Jez thanks Jez , I would have never known that Quote
Dargas[501st] Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 Oh... you meant in total.... that?a lot helmets! specially for the heros! 3 each! Quote
Midnight Trooper Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 Yes Jez got it. Fitting really as the only reason I know the answer is because of his site! Commander Dargas you were close, but didn't answer the question I meant to ask. So its your turn to come up with a question Jez if you'd care to. Quote
TK8280 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 Yes Jez got it. Fitting really as the only reason I know the answer is because of his site! Commander Dargas you were close, but didn't answer the question I meant to ask. So its your turn to come up with a question Jez if you'd care to. just nothing only you would know, because thats just not cool... Quote
GINO Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 Actually, with respect, I don't agree with all of Jez's assessments. Most of what he said is on the money, however.... The degree of texture and height of bumps vary as well as vary due ONLY to the sharpness of the pull. But it is there on every helmet. It might not appear so because of a softer pull but it definitely is because of the mold. In fact, they have to be. The question has still not been answered correctly. Those were nicely thought out logical theorys, but not the reason why. I still don't believe that anyone will answer correctly as it is a very difficult and technical question. If people are bored with it, feel free to skip it and have someone ask another question. For the meantime, let it serve as the "sword in the stone" to see who can come up with the right answer. Quote
Guest T*E Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 Actually, with respect, I don't agree with all of Jez's assessments. Most of what he said is on the money, however....The degree of texture and height of bumps vary as well as vary due ONLY to the sharpness of the pull. But it is there on every helmet. It might not appear so because of a softer pull but it definitely is because of the mold. In fact, they have to be. The question has still not been answered correctly. Those were nicely thought out logical theorys, but not the reason why. I still don't believe that anyone will answer correctly as it is a very difficult and technical question. If people are bored with it, feel free to skip it and have someone ask another question. For the meantime, let it serve as the "sword in the stone" to see who can come up with the right answer. Better yet, the sword in the stone is this: do all helmets have the bumps? Anyone care to take a shot at this? Because I have the proof I have in my hands.. Lets see someone take a stab at it shall we? T*E Quote
GINO Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 Matt's claims are baseless and without a shred of proof. You will not post proof, because you do not have it. If we all listened to you, we would all be painting our helmets with white latex house paint. Quote
Guest T*E Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 Matt's claims are baseless and without a shred of proof. You will not post proof, because you do not have it. If we all listened to you, we would all be painting our helmets with white latex house paint. Yeah too bad two helmets I have seen have the latex... as well as one ANH having stickers as well. Gino, ready? Sitting down? ready to sit in disbelief that I do have the proof? So again, you are wrong and cannot prove your claims. I cannot post the pics here as they are too large for the server. Any ideas people? Oh I have proof and not a theory as you do. Again, if someone has an idea of posting the pics I am all ears. T*E Quote
Guest T*E Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 Yeah too bad two helmets I have seen have the latex... as well as one ANH having stickers as well and another having riveted on ears. But hey, no worries. Gino, ready? Sitting down? ready to sit in disbelief that I do have the proof? I saw the ones jez posted and sadly those are not bumps. That is a ripple in the plastic that is common with forming HDPE. It is not a bump, but a texture. Has nothing to do with how the molds having bumps nor the material used in making the molds. In this case it is the strange material and what it does with forming. I cannot post the pics here as they are too large for the server. Any ideas people? Oh I have proof and not a theory as you do. Again, if someone has an idea of posting the pics I am all ears. T*E Quote
Midnight Trooper Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 I think Matt that I may be able to either condense or host them somehow on Photobucket. Quote
Guest T*E Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 I think Matt that I may be able to either condense or host them somehow on Photobucket. OK lets see if this works... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/tro...rt/nobumps2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/tro...rt/nobumps3.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/tro...rt/nobumps4.jpg OK, lets see if this works? T*E Quote
Midnight Trooper Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 Very nice! So was the Davin Felth not made in the HDPE? I would love to hear the story behind this helmet soon. Quote
Guest T*E Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 Very nice! So was the Davin Felth not made in the HDPE? I would love to hear the story behind this helmet soon. It is HDPE. So much for ALL stunt helmets having bumps! I am happy to have found the helmet so people can see and make an accurate one now. Many have tried before and failed. There are too many nuances to this helmet and the strangest thing was the chin straps.. not the typical ones we are used to seeing in stunt helmets... The foam is gone sadly in it, but the rest is all there. T*E Quote
Midnight Trooper Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 WOW! Almost enough to bring tears to the eyes. I look forward to more developments! Quote
Jumpin Jax Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 Sweet No bumps I can see, but I am not willing to do all that weathering Quote
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