Who is this? *Helmet*

[puro]

Mike: nice executive summary!

[Smitty]

Yep, that sounds about right! Good job Mike!

[carbonitekid]

How can you bring it up and then go "Oh brother here we go again" ?

 

 

When it is the same faces being pro recasting perhaps?

[TK_LEPER]

 

LOL!!

[SuperTrooper]

Actually PT recast TE2 and even made a thread here somewhere about it, as far as I know PT has no ties to CAP molds. Also VT is AP recast with the fist CAP helmet molds that were traded for loaning a TE2 to CAP to recast.

[Midnyt17]

I'm dizzy...

[ajax407[TK]]

I guess you had to be here...

 

So glad I wasn't.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Actually PT recast TE2 and even made a thread here somewhere about it, as far as I know PT has no ties to CAP molds. Also VT is AP recast with the fist CAP helmet molds that were traded for loaning a TE2 to CAP to recast.

 

Correct - this is why PT was banned and is a bit of an outcast. He flat out lied to TE2 about why he wanted to buy the armor then lied about it being TE2 recast at first. It was only in the face of evidence that he confessed. Had he recast CAP no one would have cared (except probably TE). He was told this, yet remains unrepentant.

[TK-4510[501st]]

So what is the difference between TE2 armor and TE??? There is no difference. They are the same. You recast CAP, you recast TE. You recast TE, you recast TE2 You recast TE2, you recast TE. You recast PT, you recast TE, TE2, CAP. You recast ATA, you recast TE, TE2 and CAP. Its all the same. There isnt a dis-jointed legit recast in the bunch. It is what it is.

 

Maybe the new guys dont know whats up but the armor history is very muddy. Its nonsense to argue legitimacy or rights now days. All armorers are the same. They are all recasters in my opinion. Is that bad? I dont even have an opinion anymore other than, we should not point fingers or judge people anymore. Its WAY to late for that. The mystic is gone. To me all thats left is quality and price. Right now its $=ATA....Quality=TM. Thats it.

Edited June 25, 2010 by TK-4510

[Daetrin[Admin]]

That's the theory but not the practice Mike. Various parts are replaced or cleaned up from time to time. Some generations have better definition than others. Some are done with permission, some not.

 

While they are similar, they are not the same, and while on the surface may appear equivalent are not. I've made my motivations for ensuring the differences are transparent & clear - I'm not sure what the motivation is for people to try to obscure these issues.

[Darth Voorhees[501st]]

So what is the difference between TE2 armor and TE??? There is no difference. They are the same. You recast CAP, you recast TE. You recast TE, you recast TE2 You recast TE2, you recast TE. You recast PT, you recast TE, TE2, CAP. You recast ATA, you recast TE, TE2 and CAP. Its all the same. There isnt a dis-jointed legit recast in the bunch. It is what it is.

 

Maybe the new guys dont know whats up but the armor history is very muddy. Its nonsense to argue legitimacy or rights now days. All armorers are the same. They are all recasters in my opinion. Is that bad? I dont even have an opinion anymore other than, we should not point fingers or judge people anymore. Its WAY to late for that. The mystic is gone. To me all thats left is quality and price. Right now its $=ATA....Quality=TM. Thats it.

 

Very well put Mike.

[TK-4510[501st]]

Actually now that I think of it TE2 is not a recaster. He bought his molds because he loves Star Wars. He is probably the ONLY guy who is doing it for "fun".

[Darth Voorhees[501st]]

Actually now that I think of it TE2 is not a recaster. He bought his molds because he loves Star Wars. He is probably the ONLY guy who is doing it for "fun".

 

werd. Agreed!

[tk0000[501st]]

I always get sucked into these threads....... Very interesting from a poli/sci point of view.

 

Anyway, I have a VT Hero helmet. It's marked #40. It's very light weight and has great detail. Recieved from VT very quickly. If it were stolen I would buy another.

Edited June 26, 2010 by tk0000

[Vaj]

Somewhere on these boards is a loooooong thread about the whole debacle. Gino and TE both spilled. My understanding was that TE let Gino borrow the faceplate and cap n back and when Gino gave it back it was damaged.... Gino cast the armor molds directly from the ROTJ set of armor I as I recall...Matt sold casts of his original ROTJ molds to GF who did a resculpt (poorly) to match ANH. Then Matt had Dan laws sculpt a new set of molds. Then Matt recast himself, selling the recast armor molds to TE2 and the original helmet molds as well. Then he came out with the HDPE and SFS molds...Then he sold his SFS helmet molds.. Then He recast CAP and was selling his TE armor for a very short time. THEN he whipped out the ROTJ molds and started again (they were at least in part recast from CAP). THEN he sold those again!!! Man will anyone ever learn... The only authorized people to sell armor (if there is such a thing) is Gino, TE2 ( from being a victim) , AP and TM. There has been debate about TM authenticity....but at the very least he has made the molds all his. If they were ever recast there aint much left that hasnt been made better than anything out there.

 

In my opinion the armor wars ended a long time ago. I really dont see where its worth it to argue such nonsense anymore. CAP succeeded in doing what he always planned to do. He obsessed about F'ing Matt over. All he ever talked about was screwing Matt. He planned to make his CAP armor available to everyone and even showed them how to recast it, make a table and make the armor. Thats how Marcus, PT, Scootch, ATA, TE, VT and SOOOOOO many others got the molds. He wanted to "bring down the walls on all the Bull Shift". and he did. When he was done messing everything up he disappeared into thin air. Mission accomplished Chris.

 

I guess you had to be here...

 

You are right with Chris and not totally correct with naming me like this. I guess you know better how everything began.

Anyway I find it very ironic especially from you to praise Chris this way and you know why!

 

Marcus

[TK-4510[501st]]

You misunderstand me, I am not praising Chris at all.

[lightside]

Other than TM, what isn't a recast?

 

The Gino molds never touched the inside of a screen used helmet and if I recall correctly, the TE2 molds were done at the same time as the Gino molds spurring the big argument between TE and Gino concerning the damage to the molds. Seems to me that both of those molds came from the same source so there apparently is a missing casting out there somewhere thats the father of both sets of molds. That missing casting was what was taken from the original screen used helmet.

 

So due to all this hooplah-ha-ha every bucket cast from the DaveM/BrianR Helmets are in essence recasts of some nature.

 

So then we all want to find out who are legitimate sellers of helmets based on the DM/BR castings and its never gonna happen thanks to good ol' TE's shennanigans.

 

ATA is only "legitimate" because somehow or another a lack of objection was translated into "permission". The same person also didn't make objection to PT's act of recasting. So I guess that means he has permission too?

 

I think everybody needs to just shut up and wear their armor. There are so many other dead horses we could be beating as this one has had enuff.

Agree.

 

Nor Gino, or TE had the permission/license to cast-off armors from LucasFilm, so they're out-of-law as same as all recasters. They cannot claim anything, nor anyone of us should do.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

You're wrong Daniele. This hobby makes a differentiation on several areas.

 

Bad recasting

1. If you recast someone's original sculpt without permission (TM, RT, AM).

2. If you recast a set of molds someone paid money for without permission (TE2, AP).

 

Item #1 above is pretty cut and dried. #2 people tend to fudge for their own agenda from time to time. Yes, it's true that Matt (TE) 'recast' blah blah blah, but that doesn't really mean that people can recast anything that remotely ties back to this suit. Also, various parts have been altered and improved. The belt that is used in CAP based armor is different from the TE/TE2 one, and the compad that ATA uses is not the same either. Others have spent blood sweat and tears altering their copies of the molds, and to be able to say that they are still the "same" is a gross mis-representation of the facts.

 

Un-regulated recasting hurts our hobby - most everyone is in agreement of that else people like TrooperMaster, etc. would be very reluctant to sell their wares, and we'd be back to how it was when people were happy to pay $1200 for a set of FX. And thus us, as members of this community, need to self-police it for the common good.

[lightside]

You're wrong Daniele. This hobby makes a differentiation on several areas.

 

Bad recasting

1. If you recast someone's original sculpt without permission (TM, RT, AM).

2. If you recast a set of molds someone paid money for without permission (TE2, AP).

 

Item #1 above is pretty cut and dried. #2 people tend to fudge for their own agenda from time to time. Yes, it's true that Matt (TE) 'recast' blah blah blah, but that doesn't really mean that people can recast anything that remotely ties back to this suit. Also, various parts have been altered and improved. The belt that is used in CAP based armor is different from the TE/TE2 one, and the compad that ATA uses is not the same either. Others have spent blood sweat and tears altering their copies of the molds, and to be able to say that they are still the "same" is a gross mis-representation of the facts.

 

Un-regulated recasting hurts our hobby - most everyone is in agreement of that else people like TrooperMaster, etc. would be very reluctant to sell their wares, and we'd be back to how it was when people were happy to pay $1200 for a set of FX. And thus us, as members of this community, need to self-police it for the common good.

Don't misunderstand me, I agree with you. But what you're talking about is a moral thing, and I can understand it. But I cannot justify people who claims something for other people "out-of-law" exactly as the ones they attack. To me, that's immoral too.

Does Gino, Dave, or first casters have something to say against the recasters? Well, just speak then. But what others have to do with the entire thing?

You talk about the hobby, ok. But let me say that if Lucas would be as Warner there wouldn't be no 501st or any other costuming group without wearing cheapo or inaccurate licensed stuff. If we can wear armors every year more detailed is due to crafts (I don't know if this term is correct, I'm italian) who improve the old cast, recasters (not all of them of course) included.

I don't understand this "witch hunt" against the recasters, because almost all of them were at first time.

Without recasters, we all would still wearing FX armors now, perhaps...

.

PS: I'm not a recaster, I just find this whole thing nonsense.

Edited August 2, 2010 by lightside

[Daetrin[Admin]]

I'm sure Gino, etc. do have something to say, but they are not part of this community. Due to lies, bad business practices, etc. they are no longer welcome here, though for a time they were.

 

Yes, there is a greater prop community that is much larger than the 501st, but as this is a 501st detachment and plays by the 501st rules. So when I say 'community' I mean people who are 501st, trying to join the 501st, and those who through solid business practices are considered reliable vendors to the 501st.

 

Non-501st forums are free to operate under whatever rules or good conduct guides as they establish for themselves, and are outside my concern. Thus when you mention policing, I as a DL of this community stick within that which is in my charter only, which is to protect and promote the general welfare of my membership.

[lightside]

I'm sure Gino, etc. do have something to say, but they are not part of this community. Due to lies, bad business practices, etc. they are no longer welcome here, though for a time they were.

 

Yes, there is a greater prop community that is much larger than the 501st, but as this is a 501st detachment and plays by the 501st rules. So when I say 'community' I mean people who are 501st, trying to join the 501st, and those who through solid business practices are considered reliable vendors to the 501st.

 

Non-501st forums are free to operate under whatever rules or good conduct guides as they establish for themselves, and are outside my concern. Thus when you mention policing, I as a DL of this community stick within that which is in my charter only, which is to protect and promote the general welfare of my membership.

First: even though Gino (or any other else) would have something to say, I think he couldn't. He has no legal right to speak about that. Only moral, but moral doesn't make any right or any law, because everyone of us has a personal one (otherwise we would agree each other now). We should have personalized laws as well at that point.

Second: ok, I understand your speech about the group-rules, but I don't understand how this could fix our question, in general. I still continue to find people who attack recasters a nonsense. Do you want to know why? It's easy to explain. Five years ago they said the same thing for AP. "Whoooo, a new recaster, bad guy, bad guy!!!", in years people changes and now AP is one of the most accredited in selling accurate armors among 501st members. And ist an history that repeats all the time. This time won't be different. That's the reason why I find the whole thing a monkey business.