Disgust at price gauging

[vadersfist]

I got to be honest... Everyone has their price right? But why take advantage of noobs? Yea no one holds a gun to your head to buy something, but what excuse is that to start charging for something as simple as manuals? Are you serious? People go through great lengths just to document their WIPs for FREE, but certain people have the gall to charge for it? Got to recuperate costs right?lol. Quite honestly, this practice disgusts me. Here, let me put it this way:

 

"The Academy will teach you everything you need to know about white armor. Take care of your gear, and it will take care of you. You will learn what the various components of your kit are, how to assemble and maintain them."---- Should we insert any sort of disclaimer here? i.e.- We can show you AT A CHARGE

 

Not to mention the home page of the 501st page:

 

"To Contribute

While our organization was founded to simply provide a collective identity for costuming fans with similar interests, the 501st is proud to put its resources to good use through fundraising, charity work, and volunteerism. Read more about our charity work here."---- And our price gauging for manuals will surely help you towards making the perfect armor!

 

 

Great sense of brotherhood, when I'm going to charge you to show you how to do something you may need help with. Notice I have not called out names but am making a blanket statement. WORD TO THE WISE: I would like to openly state that any noob seeking help concerning the assembly of any armor or particular item should try seeking the help of a truly selfless contributing member rather then spend money on self serving member's so called "professional manuals."

[Debater2nd[TK]]

I'm not really sure what you're talking about, to be honest, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that the Academy site is set up to help Troopers by making information available. A "disclaimer," as you put it, is not necessary, because the need does not exist. We are not here (at the FISD or the 501st) to make money off of "noobs." Speaking personally, as a staff member, I can tell you that I have never charged for information, and none of the other staff, to my knowledge, does either. As a matter of fact, tkrestonva (the Provost), was really helpful to me when I was starting, and gave me all the free help I needed, including a couple of parts.

 

I never used a manual...all the information you need to find and build a kit is on this board, for free, contributed by other members. We have some excellent tutorials that folks have written that cover just about everything. If there is someone charging for a manual or tutorial, I would guess it is probably not here, and they have every right to do so. However, if you really think there is no information available about kit building, you need to take some time and look at this board.

 

No offense, but you have 19 posts...I would check around here before you take a position like this, which it sounds like you haven't done. Slamming the 501st in general, and the FISD in particular, won't win you any friends. Our position here is always "Troopers helping Troopers." Try it...you'll see.

[vadersfist]

I know I only show 19 posts, however I am very active on several forums besides this (501st main, Clonetroopers.net, clone-empire, etc...). And believe me when I say my beef is not with the 501st (which I am active in), nor the FISD (which has provided me countless information for which I am appreciative). Honestly this post is to try and direct noobs to do their research first before they succumb to manuals that are for sale.

 

Yes I have seen manuals for sale both here and on other forums, and each time I do, it never ceases to infuriate me. Hopefully future noobs beware of this kind of cash gimmick.

 

[Runnriottt]

Now.. I see where you are coming from.

 

However look at it another way.

 

 

Market being what it is... Said manuals may never sell. I think I have an idea what this is about, 4510's new one. Its 15.00.

 

4510 is one of the best builders out there. He also did a thread here on how to. I have seen far worse for far more offered up. 4510's manual is his biz, and I think if anything its a good effort. It may never sell, but that is his adventure. He did put his time into it and it is probably the best manual made. He has a reputation for perfection on his stuff.

 

The economy being what it is, many are looking to make a few bucks. I know I am as well. I dont see a gimmick. I just see the standard thing about buyer beware. If you dont want it.. dont buy it. The forum is chuck full of build threads. Build from that ya know?

[ajax407[TK]]

I think Nathan hit it right on the head.

 

The market will dictate. If someone wants a convenient point of reference for there build, this could be it. Often during my current build I wished there was a physical guide I could flip thru quickly, write down notes in, etc. I thought about printing some of my favorite tutorials out, but didn't because of the insane amount of paper and color ink it would take.

 

Is it worth $15? Again, the market will dictate.

 

I believe *the tk in question* has contributed countless hours of service, research, quality products, and tutelage (1999 posts worth!) to our little hobby here. I can't fault him for trying something new. I'm just grateful that it is his tutorial being offered because at least I know it is a top notch guide.

 

That's my 2 cents anyway...

 

Can we get back to talking about the wonders of E6000, finding the perfect T-track, and preparing for C5 now?

[Sonnenschein]

being a "seller" myself I am quite offended by your statement.

 

1) you don't have to buy it. The same information is here on this board for FREE.

 

2) This manual is a great idea. Many of us don't have a mobile computer to take to the work shop. Having a full color, bound manual AT HAND while building your helmet is a GREAT help

 

3) If you print it all out yourself and have it bound yourself you'd probably spend more than 15.

[TK-4510[501st]]

OK...This is about me.

 

Since you have a whole 20 posts you dont know whats happened here the last 4 years or whats available to you RIGHT NOW. All my tutorials ARE free!! Theres my TE2 Stunt build, OMG build which I did for FREE, TE2 Hero conversion build and my AP ESB build. Then there is at least 30 minutes of downloadable VIDEO on how to assemble and paint a helmet. I have also contributed tons of real prop photos that I have taken at CIV and Comic-Con. I have built at least 100 helmets and my experience is something I have always shared with EVERYONE on these boards. We ALL do. THERE IS TONS OF FREE INFO ON THIS BOARD.

 

Do you need a manual?? No...you can get it ALL from this site. EVERYTHING you need is here for free. You wanna print it out? Scroll to the bottom of the first page of the threads I just listed and print them out for free. Download my videos and make a DVD or just watch them streaming from the web. FREE!!!

 

Now.....You want a 24 page full color manual on how to do basic assembly that lists the history of the TE2 helmet, all tools required and has many close up shots. A manual that you can have with you on your work bench?? A manual that will still be around when the threads die away? You can have the one I designed and spent several weeks assembling...The one I had printed and bound...for $15.00. That includes the $3-4.00 I will pay in shipping and includes the envelope I will buy and my time to the post office and my efforts. Still a rip off to you? With all due respect, dont buy it.

 

MIke

TK-4510

 

P.S.

If you buy the neck and brow rubber trim, lens, fasteners, and ear tape....you get the manual for free .

Edited May 29, 2010 by TK-4510

[ajax407[TK]]

OK...This is about me.

 

Since you have a whole 20 posts you dont know whats happened here the last 4 years or whats available to you RIGHT NOW. All my tutorials ARE free!! Theres my TE2 Stunt build, OMG build which I did for FREE, TE2 Hero conversion build and my AP ESB build. Then there is at least 30 minutes of downloadable VIDEO on how to assemble and paint a helmet. I have also contributed tons of real prop photos that I have taken at CIV and Comic-Con. I have built at least 100 helmets and my experience is something I have always shared with EVERYONE on these boards. We ALL do. THERE IS TONS OF FREE INFO ON THIS BOARD.

 

Do you need a manual?? No...you can get it ALL from this site. EVERYTHING you need is here for free. You wanna print it out? Scroll to the bottom of the first page of the threads I just listed and print them out for free. Download my videos and make a DVD or just watch them streaming from the web. FREE!!!

 

Now.....You want a 24 page full color manual on how to do basic assembly that lists the history of the TE2 helmet, all tools required and has many close up shots. A manual that you can have with you on your work bench?? A manual that will still be around when the threads die away? You can have the one I designed and spent several weeks assembling...The one I had printed and bound...for $15.00. That includes the $3-4.00 I will pay in shipping and includes the envelope I will buy and my time to the post office and my efforts. Still a rip off to you? With all due respect, dont buy it.

 

MIke

TK-4510

 

P.S.

If you buy the neck and brow rubber trim, lens, fasteners, and ear tape....you get the manual for free .

 

Congrats on post #2000, Mike! Too bad it had to be wasted on something like this. I don't think you have anything to worry about here, it looks like we all have your back and know you are a stand up guy.

 

Now get back to sitting on your pile of money and laughing maniacally... bwahahahaha!!!

[Sonnenschein]

Now get back to sitting on your pile of money and laughing maniacally... bwahahahaha!!!

 

 

 

 

[TK-4510[501st]]

 

You guys are funny

[ajax407[TK]]

[TK-4510[501st]]

OK.

Now you can buy the whole combo pack with neck trim, brow trim, lens, fasteners, ear pinstripe AND the 24 page manual for $45.00 shipped worldwide. So the manual is absolutely free when you buy the whole pack. MUAHAHAHAHHAHHHAAA!!

 

http://members.cox.net/appstronaut/supplies.html

Edited May 29, 2010 by TK-4510

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Hey Chris,

 

I can understand that at first blush it may seem like he's making money off of what you can get for free, but as Mike points out considering that he's already given it away for free and it's still there, what he's offering is a service of putting it together in a manual, which does have a cost, for those who want a manual. It's not unreasonable for him to expect to at least cover his costs on that.

 

And, that 2000 post count isn't from lots of "me too" and "good job" posts - he's been a solid contributor of tutorials here for a very long time, and for that reason was awarded an FISD service medal for his contributions to the forum.

 

I'd suggest looking over that body of work and the effort involved in the manual again to see if it really is 'gouging', as it does not appear to be the case given the evidence.

 

Paul

[Darth Voorhees[501st]]

Coop, your my bud, but im gonna have to agree with everyone else on this particular point. I understand where your coming from, but like everyone else mentioned, His tutorials are still up, for free. Plus, i dont see him making money off of this, just recouping the cost of putting it together. I'll admit, if i didnt already know how to build a helmet, id like to have something like this right at my work table rather then running back and fourth to my computer. 4510 offers alot to this community in his online tutorials and the stuff he sells on his site at fair prices, and in this case, i dont see any gouging.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

sorry brothers... I also have to chime in here.

 

MIKE is the best builder out there.

 

I've used his methods on 3 buckets.

 

completely invaluable information and guideance.

 

when I saw the manual being offered, I at first said to myself... "we don't really need that"

 

and then I saw the price and I said... "that's not a bad price for what he probably put into it!"

 

(another wasted post for me too... sheesh...)

 

raises his glass of blue mood alterant...

 

3 cheers for a manual! hip hip... stormtrooper hip hip stormtrooper hip hip... storm trooper.

[vadersfist]

I'll be honest... I went back and read his posts and publicly and personally I would like to apologize to Mike... It was late at night when I posted this (not to mention having a helluva bad day) and when I saw the post I did fail to do any further research such as seeing the support he has already provided. My post is unsubstantiated and founded on a minute reaction to something I did not fully research.

 

Mike, please accept an apology from an ignorant poster who failed to research his "view" before posting a statement lacking any sense or justification.

 

I'd like to ask if this topic can be locked or deleted based on my slanderous post....

[Darth Voorhees[501st]]

Your a good man Coop.... search your feelings, you know it to be true..

[ajax407[TK]]

The President approves the peaceful resolution to this thread.

 

 

This is just another reason why I love this board. Anywhere else this would have been a flame war from minute 1.

[TK-4510[501st]]

Thanks guys. Like I was writing to coop in our PM. I understand how it may have seemed like gouging at first glance. But I am really only offering another alternative. I actually made this manual over 2 years ago. I just now decided to make it available because I thought it was cool . No worries, we are all friends here.