troopermaster

Try this- Mike shows how to weather clone armour but it's the same method used for stormtroopers.

It's possibe the date could be wrong but, there is no denying the date was 1980 when the red-backed photo was taken with Vader and the two troopers, one of which is ROTJ. We know for a fact that photo was part of the Topps trading cards back in 1980, proving that ROTJ style armour was around the time of ESB.

I don't know if there is any proof that the second photo you posted was taken in 1983 or not, but the two troopers look to be the same as the one taken in 1980. One even has a grey frown and the other black, same in both photos and they are all in the same positions too. This is no guarantee that they were taken at the same time I know, though the troopers do look to be the same to me. It's a shame they are not better quality so we can scrutinise them more. Seeing how the helmets are the main factor here, the last photo is over exposed and washing out most of the details on the trooper helmets for me to be able to tell if they are ESB style or ROTJ (I would hazzard a guess at ESB personally )

Nice comparison. I see four ANH/ESB style helmets in there (one rounded), the rest are squashed ROTJ . What I cannot figure out is why are there two types of helmet made for one film? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Don't you find that odd? Now, if like I suspect they had planned to make all new trooper costumes for ESB but for whatever reason got behind and couldn't meet the deadline, they had to reuse the old ANH kits. After filmed began, new costumes were finished and only a couple made it on screen then these moulds were reused or fettled to make the costumes for ROTJ. We know for a fact that a new costume was photograhed with Vader in 1980, there's no denying that. You say you have no opinion on that armour and that's fine. I see 100% ROTJ armour and helmet, and can spot the difference between ANH and ROTJ a mile away.

Like the ones used in ESB. I find it too much of a coincedence that these helmets have all the same details as an ANH/ESB except made from ABS where the other Rounded Frowns not only look different, but have new decals and assembled differently. This tells me that new helmets were made specifically for ROTJ and they may have used one of these ESB ABS helmets to copy, and maybe the new armour too. I'm sticking to my guns with this, just as I have for the past few years. It's quite obvious that ROTJ style armour and helmets were around in 1980, well before ROTJ was filmed. My guess is that they did use these new ESB suits to make the new ROTJ armour. I can tell that new right arm pieces were made for ROTJ as they differ greatly from ANH. All the troopers from ESB era (with ROTJ style armour) have doubled up left arms which further strenghtens my theory. Anyway, looking forward to seeing the new section on your site Jez and I love the new layout

I don't know what shape your plastic tab was, but I always make them oblong shape so that the glue is further away from the snap in the middle. Put a blob of E6000 on each end of the tab and wait a few minutes before applying it to the armour. The glue will not run as it will feel almost dry but it will stick just fine. Another thing I do when attaching these tabs is to simply tape them in place while waiting for the glue to cure. Using clamps puts exsessive force on the tabs that is not necessary and if glue does touch the metal snap, the clamp is forcing it against the plastic and increases the chance of it burning through. Summary: Use oblong tabs and tape them in place while glue dries

I'd have thought you would want to troop in your ABS suit rather than the more brittle Styrene

That's a strange looking trooper David, but it is original and looks to be ANH except for the odd paint job. I haven't seen this trooper before and I am looking forward to seeing more of the photos of it

If you can get some E6000, that's what I recommend. It really is $h!t hot Use 1/4" (6mm) black elastic across the palm and another around the wrist or like Paul suggests, sew them onto your cotton/lycra gloves like they did in ESB.

I measured my hyperfirm MG34 and the vented barrel shroud looks to be 36mm across. I'm not sure how that translates to inches, but would think 1 3/8" approximately.

Here's a thought..... What if they originally planned to make all new trooper suits for ESB since the old ANH's were in such bad conditon, they were not ready in time when filming started and they had to use the damaged ANH? That would explain why they used what they had at hand and why only a couple of the new kits were used on screen. Going back to the photo from Getty, there is no doubt in my mind that they are the same as ROTJ troopers. Forget the grey paint on the frown, that's just cosmetic. Just the shapes of the helmets is a give away, even if it isn't the best quality image. The troopers both look just like JB's ROTJ, the helmets are virtually identicle in shape. I think if you can find a better quality photo it will confirm what I am saying. The red backed photo....is that an ESB or ROTJ Vader? I haven't got the foggiest about Vader, so maybe if we can identify Vader it will help us get some kind of date for the photo.

Mark, You would want both ROTJ helmets and armour to be screen accurate. What I am trying to get at here is that there are at least two different sets of armour in ESB that are the same as ROTJ. The two screen grabs I posted showing Chewie getting cuffed, both troopers arms are ROTJ and not ANH/ESB. They both have the return edge at the wrist, moulded joining strips and no stitching to the hand plates, all features of ROTJ. Now, I am willing to hazzard a guess that as I am convinced about the two ROTJ armours in ESB, these are probably the same suits as the ones in the promo photos with Vader in the streets of London. I don't know why or if they made more of these suits for ESB, I just know they made at least two before they made new ROTJ suits, otherwise they would not be on screen or in a photo dated 1980. Aaron, I agree mate. Look past the grey paint and deeper into the shapes. Everything about the whole costume in the red background photo just screams ROTJ to me too, especially when comparing it to the real ESB trooper next to Vader.

I know it's not a very large image, but they are definately not ANH or ESB troopers. The ab plates have the upside down buttons and the shins are tucked into the boots on one of the troopers, just like in the other photo that you think is 1983. I think they were taken at the same time and are in fact the same troopers and Vader. The helmets look the same too, one with a black frown and the other is grey. Too much of a coincidence I think.

I just checked on Getty Images and the date for the photo is 31st March 1980. Getty Images

That's not an ANH hero helmet, definately not. That's an ROTJ as we know it, but I honestly believe that is was made before ROTJ. Everything about that armour and helmet is ROTJ except for the grey frown. One thing I have noticed too is that all the ROTJ style armour from the photos I have posted (including the screen grabs) all look to have right forearms on both arms. Now, if there was a handful of stunt suits made for ESB, then it's possible they only made bucks of one arm. When ROTJ comes along, they use the same moulds (or make new ones from these stunt suits) and make sided arms since the ROTJ forearm is considerably different from an ANH while the right is almost identicle, albeit shorter. It's possible they used one bicep (left) and sculpted a right from this, keeping the thimbprint detail. One thing is for sure, the screen grabs show a different armour from the regular ANH and ESB sets. The shoulder straps have the velcro visable (ANH straps were glued). The edging trim on the chest (ANH had none). No sewing on the hand plates (Just like ROTJ). Could it be possible that the stunt suits made for ESB were reused in ROTJ? We know there is an ESB helmet on the Ewoks drum kit!

Jez, I got this one from Getty and I am pretty sure it was dated 1980. There is another one somewhere with a bus in the background which is clearer that is from the same shoot. Both of the troopers match JB's suit except one has grey teeth. I actually think the one to Vaders right is JB's. *EDIT* Found the pic Here's another poster from ESB era.

Just to confirm what I was saying, here is a screen grab from the ESB freezing chamber. You can see the armour is not the same as the rest of the ESB troopers which were refurbished ANH suits. You can clearly see the rubber edging trim on the chest, the ribbed shoulder straps velcro'd in place and the rounder corner of the shoulder bell which has the elastic placed higher up so it doesn't show on the biceps. The helmet also looks to be made from ABS and it is virtually identicle to JB's ROTJ helmet. The frown is long and narrow, and it is painted past the teeth unlike the HDPE helmets which just had individual teeth painted black. It's hard to tell from the image, but it looks as though there are no ear cap screws either. In the next two screen grabs, you can see the arms overlap on the joins instead of a cover strip. The main thing that distinguishes the ROTJ arms is that they have a return edge at the wrist where none of the ANH had this. Also, the right forearm was cut short when it was cast, so it has 10.5 divots along the strip instead of 11 which you can see here. The hand plates are not sewn to the gloves either and most likely strapped to the forearms.

I believe that there were two moulds for the Jedi helmets. The reason for this is that there is one version that is squashed with new sculpted ear caps and the other is more like a regular ANH helmet excelpt made from ABS. Now you may not know this but, the ROTJ helmets and armour are actually in ESB and were probably stunt suits. A few of these suits were used for the ESB promotion in 1980, three years before ROTJ was made, so this proves that they existed before filming episode VI. My guess is that they used these same suits from ESB and also made new ones specifically for ROTJ, resulting in the slight difference in appearance.

Yes, attach them to a thin leather belt under your armour. The thighs have a wide elastic strap which is looped over at the top and at the bottom I have a female snap. Inside the thighs I have a tab with two male snaps glued behind the joining strip that allows for a bit of adjustment. You can have more snaps for more adjustment if you need them.

Try this method, works like a charm.

I wouldn't do anymore heating if I was you. The knee plate is not designed to follow the contours of the shins, it's just a cover. When you offer the plate up, the wings or tabs should be attached with rivets or screws and they will pull themselves into place. A blob of glue behind the actual plate will stop any movement.

ATA is a recast

All three buttons closest to the belt are dark blue, the rest are black (Thanks to JB for the photo )

Whatever they use, the whole costume is a million miles different from the screen used costume. From what I remember of these costumes, they were originally made LFL for MGM and they used an ROTJ to makes moulds from, not the actual LFL moulds. The armour was cut up badly and reshaped before the moulds were made, resulting in the weird shapes. Then, new suits were made based on these LFL costumes and again, they were reshaped and resculpted to make what you see today. IMO, the old armour was better looking since it had closer lineage to the original ROTJ compared to the new version.

I believe the AP comes with a doubled up outer right to replace the missing inner left. You can tell the inner parts from the outer as they are indented from the shin bone and curve out towards the calf muscle, just as your legs do. Dont't fall into the same trap as most AP owners and put a perfectly assembled left shin that is supposed to have the knee plate attached on your right leg. Putting the right leg on your left leg makes you look knock kneed and can easily be avoided. Post pics of the shins taped together if you are insure before gluing them.