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Hengstler requirement


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Just been having a re-read of the elite standards pertaining the E-11 and noticed that an Hengstler counter was required . Just wondering why this was when several of the E-11s seen in ANH were "Hengstler free"eg the versions ANH C, ANH D and ANH D(2) seen in the E11 section of this site:-

 

http://www.partsofsw.com/

 

Anyone able to enlighten me please?

Many thanks. :)

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Because it's a common, distinguishing detail. As we all know there were omissions and flubs in the movies, e.g. a trooper without tube stripes.

 

But when we think of an ANH blaster, we think of ones that have the counter. In much the same respect that we require holsters, even though not all TK's work them in the movie, as it's a common element.

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Because it's a common, distinguishing detail. As we all know there were omissions and flubs in the movies, e.g. a trooper without tube stripes.

 

But when we think of an ANH blaster, we think of ones that have the counter. In much the same respect that we require holsters, even though not all TK's work them in the movie, as it's a common element.

 

OK, fair enough . Just seems strange that I could get in with my modified hasbro toy yet a more "accurate" resin and pipe build would not pass :lol:

 

Thanks for the quick reply. :)

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OK, fair enough . Just seems strange that I could get in with my modified hasbro toy yet a more "accurate" resin and pipe build would not pass :lol:

 

Thanks for the quick reply. :)

 

Actually a blaster is not a requirement for 501st membership for the TK or many other costumes, which is probably why no one ever really paid attention.

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Actually a blaster is not a requirement for 501st membership for the TK or many other costumes, which is probably why no one ever really paid attention.

 

When I said "get in" I actualy meant get cleared for Elite status. Just didn't make myself very clear. :)

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Guest Bezerkus
I guess no one finds it odd that a Master Replicas blaster is less qualified than a modified toy for elite status, go figure.

 

Nah, dude! it's all about that Hengstler!! *sarcastically* :lol:

 

:o Uh oh, might or might not want to modify my MR E-11. Direction to any threads on this mod?

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I guess no one finds it odd that a Master Replicas blaster is less qualified than a modified toy for elite status, go figure.

 

Nah, dude! it's all about that Hengstler!! *sarcastically* :lol:

 

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds this stance a bit strange. :huh:

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Because it's a common, distinguishing detail. As we all know there were omissions and flubs in the movies, e.g. a trooper without tube stripes.

 

But when we think of an ANH blaster, we think of ones that have the counter. In much the same respect that we require holsters, even though not all TK's work them in the movie, as it's a common element.

 

 

I'm afraid that after a 5 min search on the old inter web I beg to differ:

 

 

untitled9.jpg

 

untitled8.jpg

 

untitled-4.jpg

 

hell, its even good enough for old Uncle George :lol: :

 

untitled5.jpg

 

There is also the classic shot of Leia on the Tantive IV with the troopers behind her but I can't seem to get the pic to upload.

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I guess no one finds it odd that a Master Replicas blaster is less qualified than a modified toy for elite status, go figure.

 

Nah, dude! it's all about that Hengstler!! *sarcastically* :lol:

I feel your pain, just dont get me started on this "toy" topic again :unsure:

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I honestly did'nt think this issue was debatable. As I understood it, both versions, with and without the hengstler were spotted throughout the film, hence the decision by MR to produce a replica of the base model. It's understandable that some guys don't like the bare version without the extra greeblies, however it does'nt change the fact that both versions were seen in the film, flub or not. I sincerely believe that anyone who decides to duplicate a screen accurate costume, even with all the "flubs" that may or may not have been intended, should be given an elite status. I really don't think we should pick and choose what was intended to be in the films, the facts are certain details are in the film, bottom line. Don't you think we should all honor the memories of what we remember seeing on screen? I remember specifically seeing green lenses on the hero helmets as a kid, so regardless of what some guys might try and convince me, that's how I'd want my helmet to look. Same should go with blasters. If someone has a distinct image in their head of what stormtroopers and their blasters looked like, in this case a blaster without a counter, then why try and tell them they're wrong for wanting that look, or they're not "accurate" enough to be recognized for elite status. I can see why a toy blaster without a hengstler would'nt be allowed for elite status, but I think the standards could easily be modified to allow accurate sterlings without the counters, while still requiring the mods for the hasbro version. Just trying to be fair, that's all.

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I guess one thing to consider is when the entire discussion about Elite began, back when it was a "Mark" Designation. Looking at the threads, the Deployment discussions and FAQ's were started in July of 2006, when this Detachment was in its infancy, and no one on this thread topic so far (with the exception of Paul), was a member.

 

One of the main points that is obvious is there is always going to be ways to improve on increase the level of accuracy, but keep in mind that we were not around when this original discussion took place, and many of the ideas regarding Deployment status were defined. Both the ANH and ESB standards were set in March of this year, and the ROTJ set up in April.

 

Overall, I believe we can make changes to the status requirements, but like the FX helmet and Blaster discussion, we may be a little early in the life of the Detachment to already be trying to tear some of the standards apart. I am not disagreeing or saying that this point is not valid; just keep in perspective the intent of the standards, and when the standards were implemented.

 

If we have to make changes to the standards we will; but I hope you will agree that we may be splitting hairs, since I am sure we can also find many references to TK blasters with the counter (I am just too lazy to look right now).

 

:trooper:

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Guest Bezerkus
I honestly did'nt think this issue was debatable. As I understood it, both versions, with and without the hengstler were spotted throughout the film, hence the decision by MR to produce a replica of the base model. It's understandable that some guys don't like the bare version without the extra greeblies, however it does'nt change the fact that both versions were seen in the film, flub or not. I sincerely believe that anyone who decides to duplicate a screen accurate costume, even with all the "flubs" that may or may not have been intended, should be given an elite status. I really don't think we should pick and choose what was intended to be in the films, the facts are certain details are in the film, bottom line. Don't you think we should all honor the memories of what we remember seeing on screen? I remember specifically seeing green lenses on the hero helmets as a kid, so regardless of what some guys might try and convince me, that's how I'd want my helmet to look. Same should go with blasters. If someone has a distinct image in their head of what stormtroopers and their blasters looked like, in this case a blaster without a counter, then why try and tell them they're wrong for wanting that look, or they're not "accurate" enough to be recognized for elite status. I can see why a toy blaster without a hengstler would'nt be allowed for elite status, but I think the standards could easily be modified to allow accurate sterlings without the counters, while still requiring the mods for the hasbro version. Just trying to be fair, that's all.

 

What he said.

 

FYI for what it's worth, The Visual Dictionary leaves it off, and and all the pics in Wookiepedia. If it's a flub, it's made it's way into more areas than even Mr. No-Stripes.

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Adrian - I think you're missing the point of what the Elite standards are all about. Perhaps Carlos is right and we should just call it "deployed'.

 

I really don't think we should pick and choose what was intended to be in the films

 

Yes, we should. That's what costuming in the 501st is all about. We pick from the films what we think the standard for a costume should be. Did all sandtroopers have a pack? No, but it's a 501st requirement. Did all stormtroopers have tube stripes or a thermal detonator? No, but they're also 501st requirements. We as a 501st Detachment can only build on top of the 501st standard - we cannot detract from it.

 

If you have a strong opinion it's certainly possible to call for a vote to change the standard. But we also need to ensure that the standards don't blow in the wind either, else they lose their credibility, and more importantly no longer achieve what they're about.

 

Deployment standards - Elite, Lancer, ME Police Officer - all are there to help raise the bar for 501st Legion costuming quality. They are not about trying to recreate exactly every nuance of what was seen on film.

 

Actually I think we should adopt as part of our charter that standards only go up for review once a year. Geez guys - MEPD still allowed lines in traps/tears and drop boxes until just last year.

 

Let's not get carried away and take a program that was meant for one thing become something else entirely, and thus lose the value of what it was meant to achieve.

 

 

EDIT: Just so it's out there Adrian - I'm not trying to say "no" to your idea. "Doing the math" as we used to say though by looking through the film and gathering evidence as you're doing is an excellent first step though in moving the process forward.

 

Let's stay on track and focus on the requirement. Perhaps instead to say that it's optional might make it less controversial?

 

Also...if there is a discussion to be had about what "deployed" standards are supposed to represent & be about, I think that's a topic for a whole other thread.

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"I really don't think we should pick and choose what was intended to be in the films"

 

Yes, we should. That's what costuming in the 501st is all about. We pick from the films what we think the standard for a costume should be.

I think you might have misunderstood my point. Presuming what was intended for the film is a completely different story than picking and choosing 501st standards. I understand completely all the points you have made. Picking and choosing what we want for 501st standards is fine, but when we start to get presumptuous about what was intended for the film, well then that opens up a completely separate debate. Regardless of what was intended, we're left to pick and choose what we feel should be acceptable. I was just throwing out my two cents regarding the counter. Take it or leave it, it really doesnt bother me.

 

If you have a strong opinion it's certainly possible to call for a vote to change the standard. But we also need to ensure that the standards don't blow in the wind either, else they lose their credibility, and more importantly no longer achieve what they're about.

I merely have an opinion, and certainly did'nt intend to come off like someone demanding the standards be changed immediately. Like I'd stated earlier, I'm just trying to be fair in my own assessment of current standards.

 

Deployment standards - Elite, Lancer, ME Police Officer - all are there to help raise the bar for 501st Legion costuming quality. They are not about trying to recreate exactly every nuance of what was seen on film.

I'm not suggesting that we raise the standards to a level that we expect everyone to re-create what was seen on film accurately. If someone wants to take it to that level though, they should be recognized for it. In this case we're just talking about the counter.

 

Actually I think we should adopt as part of our charter that standards only go up for review once a year. Geez guys - MEPD still allowed lines in traps/tears and drop boxes until just last year.

This makes me think you might've thought I was expecting the current standards to change immediately. Not so, I understand completely that these things take time.

 

I was really just hoping to be able to take some professional looking images with my MR blaster to apply for elite status. I own a hyperfirm that has the counter, but I really just like the finish on the MR better, especially for the purpose of photos.

 

Let's stay on track and focus on the requirement. Perhaps instead to say that it's optional might make it less controversial?

Optional does sound good, however in the case of the hasbro blaster, it might actually need to be a necessity.

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I think you might have misunderstood my point. Presuming what was intended for the film is a completely different story than picking and choosing 501st standards. I understand completely all the points you have made. Picking and choosing what we want for 501st standards is fine, but when we start to get presumptuous about what was intended for the film, well then that opens up a completely separate debate.

Yes, I did misunderstand. Gotchit now - thanks for clarifying. :)

 

I merely have an opinion, and certainly did'nt intend to come off like someone demanding the standards be changed immediately. Like I'd stated earlier, I'm just trying to be fair in my own assessment of current standards.

 

This makes me think you might've thought I was expecting the current standards to change immediately. Not so, I understand completely that these things take time.

I think I was just overly sensitive after that looooooong and heated thread we just had about FX helmets (to ban or not to ban). It can be hard at times to gauge correctly tones in these posts. My apologies for making a mountain out of what was in retrospect a molehill.

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Just doing your job, Paul !!!

Thx Adrain for expressing your views!!

 

Thank you and all that are giving there opinions!!!!

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I think I was just overly sensitive after that looooooong and heated thread we just had about FX helmets (to ban or not to ban). It can be hard at times to gauge correctly tones in these posts. My apologies for making a mountain out of what was in retrospect a molehill.

 

Sorry mate. I should probably have thought about that and let the waters calm a bit before starting this thread. :unsure:

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Oh .. just give us some actions!!

 

You guys have great arguments and build your critics (for most parts anyway) with very good points! I love reading about those threads and I think they serve their purpose really well!

 

This is how things move forward, but of course, it has to stay on topic! ;)

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If one of the ANH film heroes can get away without a counter then i say with or without should be fine.It should be up to the indivdual trooper to whether or not to put the counter onto hes or her blaster.

 

e-11-5.jpg

e-11-6.jpg

Pictures borrowed from a thread over on the MEPD.

 

And to give balance to this.

e-11-1.jpg

e-11-2.jpg

 

case closed melud lol.

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I also think this should be reconsidered and the Hengstler be made optional. Many of the blasters in ANH do not have it and I don't think they are production errors but they were made deliberately that way.

On a personal side, if I could choose I prefer it without the counter, to me it looks like a bulky glued add-on.

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OK then, this should really go to a vote. There are some other details that can be tightened up at the same time.

 

Scott M. - did you want to take the lead on this?

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So to meet the requirement, does it have to be an actual hengstler counter or will a resin copy suffice? Side note: Justin has his TK number displayed on his counter-very cool thinking. What was the hengstler counter supposed to count? Was it supposed to be an ammo readout or a range finder for the scope?

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